Innova's Latest Discs

Chris Bunce · Post by **Chris Bunce** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:11 pm

Mullen wrote:The flight ratings are on the stamp now for the new innova discs. Pretty ugly and lame if you ask me.

Ditto. I'd love to see a complete revamping of the Champion stamps like Discraft just did with the Z's.

bradley · Post by **bradley** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:31 pm

I love the flight rating logo and actually write them on some discs, just geeky cool. Runs vary but other than that inconsistency not seeing.
bradley

Jeff Walker · Post by **Jeff Walker** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:19 pm

you mean like Discraft does? I know a lot of people who write that on the back of the discs with a sharpie.

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:18 pm

Dave D touches on inconsistency within runs:

From the PDGA message board - Ask Dave D about Innova

Question:

I have a Star Sidewinder that barely turns over but it just glides forever in essentially a straight line. It's probably my favorite driver. But compared to say, a DX Archangel, it's not nearly as easy to turn over. I realize the Archangel is more understable, but the difference is like night a day.

I can understand that over time Star plastic is going to wear down a lot less, but it seems like right out of the box, the Star plastic is more high speed stable. It doesn't make any sense to me because I assume a disc's flight is controlled by its shape, not the plastic it's made out of.

Does Star plastic have less friction with the air or something along those lines?

Dave Dunipace's Answer:

Its not friction. Its shrink from different plastics and different molding parameters. DX plastics shrink more than the higher grades. Also within the grades as opposed to across grades, there are varying types of shrink across flow or along the flow of the plastic into the mold. Its complicated.

Jay Ducharme · Post by **Jay Ducharme** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:00 pm

I'm glad that Innova and other companies are putting out lots of discs. That's a sign that the sport is doing well. But I feel no temptation to buy everything that's released. After playing in a tourney with a guy who was throwing a putter for his driver -- and doing really well with it -- I realized it's not the disc, but the player that matters. Sure, a good disc can help a bit. But if I don't know how to throw properly, it doesn't matter what I'm gripping. I've tried lots of different discs, and I haven't found much difference in the results. I either throw them all well, or I don't.

I want only four kinds of discs with consistent behavior for my throwing style: a really overstable, really understable, in-between and a heavy putter. As long as I know how the disc tends to behave, I should be able to throw it correctly (on a good day). I have a few other discs I carry besides, in case I lose one or two. But that's it.

And of course, as my throwing style has changed over the years so have my discs. But I know there's no Holy Grail of discs out there, just as there's no clearly superior golf club or ball that fits everybody.

Gary Stansfield · Post by **Gary Stansfield** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:08 pm

[quote/] Does Star plastic have less friction with the air or something along those lines?

Dave Dunipace's Answer:

Its not friction. Its shrink from different plastics and different molding parameters. DX plastics shrink more than the higher grades. Also within the grades as opposed to across grades, there are varying types of shrink across flow or along the flow of the plastic into the mold. Its complicated.[/quote]

WTF? This dude has a great future ahead of him in politics.

Shane Peters · Post by **Shane Peters** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:29 pm

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:59 am

without "that dude" the beveled edge disc would not exist.

Gary Stansfield · Post by **Gary Stansfield** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:07 pm

He may be the greatest guy in the world, and maybe he invented sliced bread...but even though I napped through a few of my organic chemistry and physics lectures in college, I'm pretty sure his answer didn't address the question. Just sayin'....

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:18 pm

What would happen to NIKE GOLF if there new golf ball the "juice 312" designed for great distance and a "soft feel". Was sold then nike came out and said some of the molds did'nt come out with the soft feel? The ones with the flatter dimples didn't had a softer feel and the one with the domed dimples flew far and had the soft feel??
Dave

Matt Buono · Post by **Matt Buono** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:55 pm

He is a mad scientist there at innova

and keeps he methods to himself

he invents it and others copy it

making it more consistant

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:58 pm

Nike is a multi billion dollar company - they can pay players 100 million dollars just to wear their shoes and get a few pictures taken.

I would not be surprised if one Nike scientist made more in a year than Dave Dunipace does.

And if Nike made discs I'm sure they would be impeccable

spread the sport - make these guys billionaires and you will have discs created by NASA engineers

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:26 pm

spread the sport - make these guys billionaires and you will have discs created by NASA engineers

I don't know about "...these guys billionaires...", but I know of one of "these guys" who is a Stanford physics professor and is doing "OK" (and since Stanford is in Palo Alto as is NASA's Ames Research Lab, it's almost the same...).

Karl

Tim Kapushinski · Post by **Tim Kapushinski** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:20 am

i've thrown a bunch of the different new discs, as said they r very inconsistent. the groove throws a lot like the wraith but just doesn't flip the way a wraith does. the one thing i noticed about the groove is that the firmer the flight plate is the more overstable it is, i have bought 2 at the same time. the one thing about the wraiths is that i've found that they tend to be more consistent then the rest of their drivers, its just the weights r inconsistent, u have to double check the weights, if available

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:24 am

Karl wrote:
spread the sport - make these guys billionaires and you will have discs created by NASA engineers

I don't know about "...these guys billionaires...", but I know of one of "these guys" who is a Stanford physics professor and is doing "OK" (and since Stanford is in Palo Alto as is NASA's Ames Research Lab, it's almost the same...).

Karl

well my point was that if they were billionaires they could hire those people away from NASA

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:50 am

Allen,

I hear you, but in reality "it's just a sport" (and a small, fledgling one at that)!

As much as we love this sport, I know Adler (Aerobie founder / owner) pretty well, he's "doing OK" (money-wise) and he has wickedly varied interests (hygrodynamics, coffee makers, quantum mechanics, etc.). And if you WERE a billionaire, you PROBABLY wouldn't spend TOO much time on any sport 'as small as' dg is...there would be "bigger fish to fry" (sports or otherwise).

But it is really cool thinking about what a lot of money COULD do to "refine" certain things about dg!

Karl

Shawn Mullen · Post by **Shawn Mullen** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:00 am

tmkap8 wrote:i've thrown a bunch of the different new discs, as said they r very inconsistent. the groove throws a lot like the wraith but just doesn't flip the way a wraith does. the one thing i noticed about the groove is that the firmer the flight plate is the more overstable it is, i have bought 2 at the same time. the one thing about the wraiths is that i've found that they tend to be more consistent then the rest of their drivers, its just the weights r inconsistent, u have to double check the weights, if available

I think the wider the wing is the mold will be more inconsistent from disc to disc.

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:07 pm

ah my sarcasm and hidden agendas do not come across on the internet very well.

My point from that whole interchange is that it is just a sport (and a small, fledgling on at that)

My point is that Innova isn't run by aerospace engineers so don't expect perfection.

Karl wrote:Allen,

I hear you, but in reality "it's just a sport" (and a small, fledgling one at that)!

As much as we love this sport, I know Adler (Aerobie founder / owner) pretty well, he's "doing OK" (money-wise) and he has wickedly varied interests (hygrodynamics, coffee makers, quantum mechanics, etc.). And if you WERE a billionaire, you PROBABLY wouldn't spend TOO much time on any sport 'as small as' dg is...there would be "bigger fish to fry" (sports or otherwise).

But it is really cool thinking about what a lot of money COULD do to "refine" certain things about dg!

Karl

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:18 am

To continue the discussion...

from http://www.discgolfsweden.se/english/index.aspx:

09-02-20 - Innova Dart
The latest putt and approach model from Innova is called the Dart. It is similar to the Aviar P & A, except that it has less fade and a little more range. The preliminary numbers are speed=3, glide=4, turn=0 (HSS) och fade=0 (LSS). It is made with a new R-Pro material where R basically stands for Rubber. This material is most similar to JK Pro and Pro Rhyno and it stays very grippy and flexible in cold or wet weather.

The Dart was approved yesterday, it measures like this:
Outside diameter: 21.2 cm (max weight 176.0gr)
Inside rim diameter: 18.8 cm
Height: 2.2 cm
Rim depth: 1.4 cm
Rim thickness: 1.2 cm
Flexibility rating: 5.10 kg
Rim configuration rating: 38.00

Dart will be released together with Star Boss and R-Pro Aviar P & A if everything is running according to plan.
There is a big chance that the Rhyno and Aviar-X will be made in R-Pro in a near future.

The Aviar P&A in a JK Pro plastic might be nice...

Les Sinnock · Post by **Les Sinnock** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:53 am

OK. But what's your real point.

Shawn Mullen · Post by **Shawn Mullen** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:05 pm

it means they are discontinuting the putter pro plastic for everything that is supposed to be soft (ask dave d on the pdga site). This includes the jk aviar and everything else made in that plastic. From now on they are going to be made in this new plastic. so if you throw jk's and like them now, better buy up. Those that throw glow aviars, i bet this stuff feels a lot like the old glowies with the san marino tooling on the back, before they changed the plastic blend and the mold for that matter. Basically, more new plastic to confuse you and another innova putter mold. But i like new plastic.

Allen Smith · Post by **Allen Smith** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:57 pm

crossles wrote:OK. But what's your real point.

The subject is "Innova's latest discs" that is what my post was about.

I was also trying to draw attention to the fact that this is a controllable putter that is being released and not a 19 speed driver

Dave McHale · Post by **Dave McHale** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:12 pm

I'm looking forward to the first 19 speed PUTTER

Mike Murphy · Post by **Mike Murphy** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:16 pm

dmchale wrote:I'm looking forward to the first 19 speed PUTTER

Whats this?