Payouts???

Mike Murphy · Post by **Mike Murphy** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:37 pm

HA!

Them boys got to much pride for that.

Doug Bechtel · Post by **Doug Bechtel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:47 pm

This discussion (on, what, four threads now?) has me remembering my start about 7 years ago. Funny Money was great! I wanted to play better so I could turn pro (instead I got older). I was honored to be among amazing people and having fun. TDs were awesome because they basically volunteered to do SO much work. Pros didn't talk, they just KICKED ASS on the course. The pros who do talk, know what they are talking about. I wanted to be better, but was thankful for NEFA for putting it all together.

Most people are amazing and set a good example. Dunne Family, I salute you. My goal is to continue to play better and be thankful, less critical of what NEFA offers. Seriously, the leaders in NEFA have WORKED hard.

Most AM1's and AM2's and AMMasters do not display Amatuer behavior. All disc sports are built on honesty and honor.

OK, enough soap boxing. I will now shut up and practice my putts.

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:45 pm

Doug was on to something when he said “…most AM1s and AM2s and AMMasters do not display amateur behavior”.

“Professional” can mean a lot of different things. We (in dg) allude to it perhaps too many times in the context of “income producing” instead of that of “attitude”.

Cheef,
If you feel it’ll serve YOU better (by playing AM2), then absolutely play there. You have that right (although, if it’ll be in a PDGA event, you’ll have to make sure you’re under a 935 rating). Move around as much as you feel is good for YOU.

Why NOT play “where you can”?
We have a “system” (both dg in general and the PDGA specifically) which has overlapping segregation criteria – use it to your advantage.
If you don’t like the system, change it! Or, at least, attempt to.

One of the best things about our society (and maybe a lot of societies in general) is that they are based on “trial and error”. Develop something – an idea, a process, whatever – and people will immediately try to shoot it down. Good! Because, by this process, it’ll either crash & burn or will survive & flourish. Survival of the fittest.
If our “system” sucks then enough people will “do things” (to take advantage of it) and it will either sink or swim.

Karl

Ps: I REALLY doubt that a whole lot of people who pride themselves on being a “Pro” will – as they say, not I – “come down” to the AM ranks.

Pps: If money is THAT important to you, it’s my sincere advice that there are MUCH better ways of getting more of it than playing for each other’s money a few times a week.

Jc vermynck · Post by **Jc vermynck** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:07 pm

just checked out the thread , figured id respond since its about me

our payout overlay was for 10 or so advanced 3-4 int and adv masters
3of 6 women etc
thats what we did ,maybe you can start a thread askin who got what.
or a poll
due to fly off the handle accounting ,stuff given at the last time etc
we did the prize layout friday when we had 82 or so
we paid all the cash we had and then some

as far as sponsors go ,if you want to count 4 shirts,a case of beer and stuff donated at the last second by people sponsorship , go ahead and put a value to it.
get a second job , cause disc golf aint it
wonder why i try to give up the tourney each year

Seamus Scanlon · Post by **Seamus Scanlon** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:02 pm

What do you want for nothin'
A rubber biscuit?

Phil Vilmorin · Post by **Phil Vilmorin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:39 pm

AllenDedalus wrote:
veganray wrote:
Fu Man wrote:I think we have figured out BOB's end game...he tries to confuse you with his stupidity until you blow your face off with a shot gun.

That gambit is known as the "Modified Cheney"

Is it called the modified Cheney because nobody has ever accused Bob of being an evil genius?

hes actually an evil jenious... get it straight

Matt DeAngelis · Post by **Matt DeAngelis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:34 am

phil v wrote:
AllenDedalus wrote:
veganray wrote:
Fu Man wrote:I think we have figured out BOB's end game...he tries to confuse you with his stupidity until you blow your face off with a shot gun.

That gambit is known as the "Modified Cheney"

Is it called the modified Cheney because nobody has ever accused Bob of being an evil genius?

hes actually an evil jenious... get it straight

nice!

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:09 am

Cost $30
2 rounds of Disc Golf, Lunch, Players pack (disc & Mini)
And the chance to win anything is a great deal :lol:

Dave

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:01 am

I can understand why TD's get mad about people complaining. Heck I'm the king of it!

But seriously, I agree with Gary and Whitey, there is no excuse for only 3 ams getting paid out of the 30 plus that attended in AM 1. If other AMs were upset about this speak up. You are all members of NEFA and your voices need to be heard. Also if peopple are mad you do not have to attend next year-

Chris Carr · Post by **Chris Carr** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:19 am

I definately got into this game for the huge money. I mean what's the point in playing if you don't get paid. In fact I would like to propose there be 100 % payout. Like first gets a dollar and last get a penny just so everyone feels fulfilled in their ability that day. What do you think?

Dave Boliver · Post by **Dave Boliver** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:30 am

I can see where most of you are comeing from. lets see the spread sheet. That will ancer all questions. all turnys. should show one.
this is not the first time we have had this linch mobb assembled.
As i look at this silly page, I look at some of the posts. Some of you wold not even of cashed if thay payed out 100%

Josh Connell · Post by **Josh Connell** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:33 am

yaskis wrote:I can understand why TD's get mad about people complaining. Heck I'm the king of it!

But seriously, I agree with Gary and Whitey, there is no excuse for only 3 ams getting paid out of the 30 plus that attended in AM 1. If other AMs were upset about this speak up. You are all members of NEFA and your voices need to be heard. Also if peopple are mad you do not have to attend next year-

I disagree that there's "no excuse". There very well could have been an valid reason for it, and I spelled it out up thread already. I don't know the details of the tournament in question (apparently, neither does the TD

), but I know there have been plenty of tournaments in the past that returned value for the entry fees in ways other than strictly through performance-based payouts. If the tournament "paid out" 90% of the entries collected through player packs and CTPs and other "stuff", there might not have been a ton leftover at the end to put into a payout.

Let's say hypothetically that $5 per person was left over for the payout after player pack, fees, etc was deducted. 5X30=150. Spread that out over top 1/3 (10) or just the top 3...how about compromise and say top 5? PDGA payout scale...
Top 10 = $23, $21, $20, $18, $17, $14, $12, $11, $9, $8
Top 5 = $45, $38, $30, $23, $15
Top 3 = $68, $49, $34
My guess is no matter what the TD does in this hypothetical case, the payout driven players are going to find fault somehow. Either it isn't deep enough or it's too deep and flat or something in between.

Again, not saying that was the case here because I don't know, I'm just saying there probably shouldn't be a blanket "no excuse" statement about it without all the details.

But yes, I wholeheartedly agree that if players are disgruntled or upset about the way something went down, they should choose not to attend such an event in the future. If nothing changes and the same people still show up the next time, what message does that send? Tells me the players either aren't bothered by or approve of how things are run.

--Josh

Justin White · Post by **Justin White** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:59 am

Everyone is talking about AM1 payouts. MY FIRST POST IS TALKING ABOUT EVERY DIVISION So say that everyone in AM1 moves up to PRO and the field is 40 players. And only top 3 players recieve money. How would everyone feel about that? What do you think 4th place would think?

DeAngelis made everyone start thinking this thread was about AM1 with the second post, telling me not to worry about payouts cause I play AM1. I have been thinking about moving up, thats why I brought it up.

James Lane · Post by **James Lane** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:01 am

I would say, "Should have played better", then would have thought about that payout when I went to sign up for the tourney next year. TD can pay what they want, let the registrations do the talking.

Gary Cyr · Post by **Gary Cyr** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:04 am

dboliver wrote:I can see where most of you are comeing from. lets see the spread sheet. That will ancer all questions. all turnys. should show one.
this is not the first time we have had this linch mobb assembled.
As i look at this silly page, I look at some of the posts. Some of you wold not even of cashed if thay payed out 100%

With the new intergrated points calculation system, the spreadsheet that needs to be filled out and turned in has a column for "Prize". So each event will have payouts and prizes clearly reported and displayed.

Matt DeAngelis · Post by **Matt DeAngelis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:05 am

Justin White wrote:DeAngelis made everyone start thinking this thread was about AM1 with the second post, telling me not to worry about payouts cause I play AM1.

Sorry...again....sorry. Did I mention that I'm sorry.
:oops:

Mike Murphy · Post by **Mike Murphy** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:06 am

Gary's on top of it everyone. Thats why he's the big man! :thumright:

Gary Cyr · Post by **Gary Cyr** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:12 am

Cheef wrote:Gary's on top of it everyone. Thats why he's the big man!

I don't know exactly what that means Cheef.

Dave Boliver · Post by **Dave Boliver** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:19 am

Whity...........you are the man!!
I think this is the year to pick a couple of pro. turnys. but I would like to see you take down am1. this year.
You are ready for the bigs, but one more season in am1.........just do it.

I will post that picture of you at stop&shop as soon as i figure out how.
It seems get the most hits on the slide show from the weekend. DJB420.
;~')

Todd Lapham · Post by **Todd Lapham** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:15 am

I agree with everything Gary has said. It's a little ridiculous that the AMs get paid out such massive amounts of funny money. I asked Drew Austin if he would be playing AM if there was no funny money and laughed and looked at me like "are you serious." He said "Hell no, I'd play in Pro but I like getting so much free plastic." I have a feeling that a lot of the top AM1's feel this way and would 100% move up if it wasn't for the "free" plastic.

I know I'm a player that's inbetween both levels and I made the choice to move up to Pro for the simple reason that I wanted to get better (plus the sandbagger comments :lol:

). I truly believe that this is hurting the sport and it would grow faster if the AM1's were only provided a players pack, trophies and points for the entry. I guarantee that the tweeners would be in Pro, which is a good thing.

As for BOB:

Bobby D wrote: AM2 and rec should play for trophys. AM1 should get funny money and Pro's get real money leave it like that. Its been like that for years so why now do you want a change you not gonna get it. Move down I dont care you will get sick of paying $30 of your own money to get funny money to buy disc that you already have and you know it's true thats why you moved up.

This maybe THE DUMBEST thing I have ever read on the Nefa board and that's saying a lot. What possible rationale could you have for paying AM1s but not AM2s, besides that it's the division you play in and directly benefit from? I can't think of one. You're saying that if it's not broke don't fix it, right? But you are also the first person to say "way to grow the sport" you can't have it both ways. Change is the only way to grow something, it simply won't take off on it's own the way it is. Nefa hasn't been incorporated for years now, what's the point of changing it? That rationale doesn't make sense. I think you need to sit back and think of what you just said because it really is just plain stupid and I know you're not a stupid guy.

Todd Lapham · Post by **Todd Lapham** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:17 am

As for the original point of this thread. I think any payout is fine as long as everyone knows ahead of time. If it's a winner take all, that's fine as long as you know that before you paid to play. If there is no payout outlined it should be the default PDGA payout, IMO.

Mike Murphy · Post by **Mike Murphy** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:19 am

Todd Lapham wrote:As for the original point of this thread. I think any payout is fine as long as everyone knows ahead of time. If it's a winner take all, that's fine as long as you know that before you paid to play. If there is no payout outlined it should be the default PDGA payout, IMO.

This.

Bobby Direnzo · Post by **Bobby Direnzo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:27 am

You asses can say what you want but im not moving up to give $50 away every tourney to the top pro's which would amount to $600 a year. Maybe some ppl out there like pissing away that much money a year I can think of better places to spend it. This will just push me and moaybe other to just play for fun and not even play in tourneys if there is nothing to play for face it. But you guys are the smarft ones keep it up. Piss away your cash to the same ppl! :lol:

Why dont you guys worry about your own div and stop crying like little girls about how much funny money we make. Move down and play Am1 I dont give two shts but in reality you wont so shut it! :roll:

Todd Lapham · Post by **Todd Lapham** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:38 am

Bobby D wrote:Move down and play Am1 I dont give two shts but in reality you wont so shut it!

Want to bet on that?

Bobby Direnzo · Post by **Bobby Direnzo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:41 am

Todd Lapham wrote:
Bobby D wrote:Move down and play Am1 I dont give two shts but in reality you wont so shut it!

Want to bet on that?

I want you too so you stop bitching like the rest of them. Why would I play pro? That's like sitting down at a poker table never playing and getting my ass kicked but keep coming back everytime to play and you know how that is cuz me and you know its fun taking easy money against ppl that suck at cards so whats the difference in disc golf? No difference. Your just pissing away money for no reason I rather play casual golf!!

Dave Boliver · Post by **Dave Boliver** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:49 am

Bob did you have a meeting this morning?
it's so late for you to start posting.? ;~')
"Im just saying"

Bobby Direnzo · Post by **Bobby Direnzo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:51 am

dboliver wrote:Bob did you have a meeting this morning?
it's so late for you to start posting.? ;~')
"Im just saying"

No i just decided to go in around 9am. :lol:

Gary Cyr · Post by **Gary Cyr** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:01 am

Todd Lapham wrote:
Bobby D wrote: AM2 and rec should play for trophys. AM1 should get funny money and Pro's get real money leave it like that. Its been like that for years so why now do you want a change you not gonna get it. Move down I dont care you will get sick of paying $30 of your own money to get funny money to buy disc that you already have and you know it's true thats why you moved up.

This maybe THE DUMBEST thing I have ever read on the Nefa board and that's saying a lot. What possible rationale could you have for paying AM1s but not AM2's

Self interests, nothing more,..nothing less.

And Bob you are supposed to be playing for the points,..not the plastic.

Your arguement is based in self interest, but you are to blind to see it.

Lower the AM entry fees, give players packs, trophies,..and points.

Pay AM1's in cash but not AM 2's :roll:

IDIOT!

Gary Cyr · Post by **Gary Cyr** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:07 am

By the way,..I understand that up in Maine they have done away with the big prize pools for AM.

Bobby Direnzo · Post by **Bobby Direnzo** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:09 am

Gary/Mass wrote:
Todd Lapham wrote:
Bobby D wrote: AM2 and rec should play for trophys. AM1 should get funny money and Pro's get real money leave it like that. Its been like that for years so why now do you want a change you not gonna get it. Move down I dont care you will get sick of paying $30 of your own money to get funny money to buy disc that you already have and you know it's true thats why you moved up.

This maybe THE DUMBEST thing I have ever read on the Nefa board and that's saying a lot. What possible rationale could you have for paying AM1s but not AM2's

Self interests, nothing more,..nothing less.

And Bob you are supposed to be playing for the points,..not the plastic.

Your arguement is based in self interest, but you are to blind to see it.

Lower the AM entry fees, give players packs, trophies,..and points.

Pay AM1's in cash but not AM 2's IDIOT!

Seriously Gary points mean sht. WOW.. I got points, let me just dish out money to get meaning less points cuz you dont want Am's to win funny money so im playing for a trophy sounds like a blast! :roll:

If I want a trophy ill go back to when I was a little kid and play tee ball. Where all grownups that pay real money to compete for funny money or real money depending on what div you are in. If I place I use that funny money to enter into another tourney whats the big deal, and im sure others do the same. Gary stop crying like a girl and move down if you want funny money IDIOT!!!

Players pack are you serious? I never even thrown a disc from a players pack. This week I got a 169 distroyer that was the best one I could find and u make the players pack sound like its the best thing from slice cheese. :lol:

Every tourney gives the same disc's roc's and distroyers, seriously how many roc's do I need. :roll: