Rollaway putts, interference in tourney

[Matt Aubin]

Scenario: PDGA sanctioned event, 2nd round. You're competing with others in your group directly.

The pin is located on a hill or mound; very common especially in the Northeast. You have a great drive and are only 40' from the pin, at the bottom of the hill. The others in your group are not so lucky, but have all laid up their 2nd shot on the hill for pretty easy 3's.

After those upshots, you're up for your 40 foot putt up the hill. The other 3 players are waiting behind you, and they place their bags on the ground. You place your bag behind you also. You putt, and miss.

The disc hits the cage and rolls back down the hill. One of several scenarios could happen:

A. It rolls towards you and your bag. You do not move yourself OR your bag, stopping the rollaway (advantage).
B. It rolls towards you... you move, and also move your bag, thinking it may be interference. It rolls further away than A (disadvantage).
C. It rolls towards another player; they do not move themselves or their bag, disc stops. (advantage you, disadvantage them)
D. It rolls towards another player, they purposefully move themselves or their bag to let the disc roll further away. (disadvantage you, advantage them)


Which scenario, if any, would be a stroke-able offense? Would scenario B, although a disadvantage, be the right thing to do (avoid interference), or can you stay put and stop the disc? Is another person required/expected to move their equipment, or should they remain still and 'let it happen'? If they DO move, is it a courtesy violation or interference?


... and don't say 'just make the putt.'

[Matt Aubin]

nevermind, found this:


http://forums.nefa.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3522

[Shawn Mullen]

Aight....this happend to me at Sugarbush two yrs ago.

Putting up hill 50 feet away. Players are all behind me with their bags on the ground. I miss the putt and roll backward. It's clearly heading towards everyones bag. Just as the disc is hitting one of the other players bags he picks his bag up shooting my disc into the air. Dics goes up in the air and rolls almost 200 feet away down the hill. Where am I supposed to play that from? We don't know where it would have stopped, IMO the player interfered with my shot becasue when I putted the bags were all there on the ground, when he moved it as my disc was hitting it, he sent it 200 feet away. I played it from where it went (200 feet away) and played a provisional from where it hit the bag. I eneded up having to take the score from 200 feet away. Is that the right call?

[Eric Kevorkian]

Aight....this happend to me at Sugarbush two yrs ago.

Putting up hill 50 feet away. Players are all behind me with their bags on the ground. I miss the putt and roll backward. It's clearly heading towards everyones bag. Just as the disc is hitting one of the other players bags he picks his bag up shooting my disc into the air. Dics goes up in the air and rolls almost 200 feet away down the hill. Where am I supposed to play that from? We don't know where it would have stopped, IMO the player interfered with my shot becasue when I putted the bags were all there on the ground, when he moved it as my disc was hitting it, he sent it 200 feet away. I played it from where it went (200 feet away) and played a provisional from where it hit the bag. I eneded up having to take the score from 200 feet away. Is that the right call?

This could be posted in the "what really grinds my gears" thread.

Tough break dude...unsure of how to play that one.

[Mark Sherwood]

Unplayable lie?

[Dave McHale]

mullen, it was the right call. crappy situation but the right call. if the players were that well below you, they really should have been more prepared to move their gear. However, intentionally NOT moving the bag at that point could be considered an infraction on that player's part as well so I think he did the right thing by TRYING to move his bag out of the way.

[Shawn Mullen]

mullen, it was the right call. crappy situation but the right call. if the players were that well below you, they really should have been more prepared to move their gear. However, intentionally NOT moving the bag at that point could be considered an infraction on that player's part as well so I think he did the right thing by TRYING to move his bag out of the way.

And he didn't intentionally mess with the shot, but that isn't the point, he still interfered with it. It was some really bad luck for me. It sucks because I would have picked up a shot on everyone on my card.....even with the missed putt. But who knows where the disc really would have rolled to.

My impression is that once the bag is there it's there, you shouldn't be allowed to move it even if MY disc is going at it and definetly not while I'm shooting and my shot is still live (just like a rock or log or any other part of the playing surface that can't be moved). I agreed to throw under the current conditions and as my disc was moving someone altered the playing conditions.

[Dave McHale]

the course is supposed to be played as it existed at the beginning of the round, not at the point when you threw though. Otherwise you could argue that it should be legal that people could INTENTIONALLY create barriers for rollaways before they threw "just in case". the bag isn't a part of the course so isn't an obstacle you can or should have to consider during play. A bag on the ground is VERY different from a rock or log.

And like you said, if it WAS intentional then at least you could have taken the shot where the contact was made (or option to re-throw, per the rules). Plus that player would have the interference penalty thrown on their score.

[Shawn Mullen]

Ok so the bag can't be part of the play surface. Does intention even have anything to do with it? He didn't intend to mess with the shot but his moving the bag still altered the outcome of my shot. Shouldn't there still be consequences? The shot was interfered with.

[Dave McHale]

intention definitely has a factor. as chuck said in that other thread Aubin linked above (chuck explains a bit more to people's q's posted on the thread too), it's all in the rulebook under the Interference rule... http://www.pdga.com/rules/80307-interference Sections A. and C. are most pertinent to your situation

803.07 Interference

A. A thrown disc that hits another player, spectator, or animal shall be played where it comes
to rest. A thrown disc that is intentionally deflected or was caught and moved shall be marked
as close as possible to the point of contact, as determined by a majority of the group or an
official. Alternatively, for intentional interference only, the thrower has the option of taking a re-throw. Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with the flight
or path of a disc could easily occur. The away player may require other players to mark their
lies or move their equipment before making a throw if the player believes that either could
interfere with his or her throw.

B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface or supported by the target is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. If a marker disc is moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. (If the two meter penalty is in effect See also 803.08 C and D for movement of a disc above the playing surface.)

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or
obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a
competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

Pretty sure there's a Q&A out there as well if i could be arsed to find it, but i HATE looking for some things on the pdga website... q&a's and docs

[Chuck Kennedy]

Here's the article if you missed it:
http://www.pdga.com/interference-rule

[Shawn Mullen]

Good read Chuck thanks.