Completely losing the scorecard before turning it in

[Mike Kernan]

This was a new one for me. After the final round of a tournament yesterday, one of the groups did not bother to turn their scorecard in. Seems there was some confusion over a lost disc on the last hole and half of the group immediately ran off to find the lost disc after holing out.

Once the TD spoke up asking for the missing card, it became obvious that one of the players in the group had left to go home and probably had the card with him since he was keeping score on the last hole. When called, the player then said he had the card, but was not going to return to turn it in.

What is the proper ruling for the TD?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Players are allowed to reconstruct a scorecard that's lost. Since the player who had the card was contacted, he could read the scores over the phone to be recorded on a new card. The remaining players in the group would then go over those numbers to confirm scores and a valid card turned in. If it was past the 25-minute limit, then each player would get the 2-shot late card penalty. If the player with the card refused to provide scores over the phone or help generate the replacement card, the remaining players could still reconstruct the scorecard. This player who had the original card and didn't help could potentially be brought up for disciplinary action if the TD felt it merited reporting it.

[Mike Kernan]

Could you back up your dissertation with some actual rules?

We looked through all the pDGA rules and there wasn't really one that addressed the situation. I see that you're tripping down the rabbit hole of

"803.01. F . Rule of Fairness. If any point in dispute is not covered by the rules, the decision shall be made in
accordance with fairness. Often a logical extension of the closest existing rule or the
principles embodied in these rules will provide guidance for determining fairness."

but, perhaps someone can find an actual rule for this?

[Chuck Kennedy]

804.03E&F are sufficient. Players attest to their scores (E) and turn in a scorecard within 25 minutes(F). There are many times a player doesn't turn in the scorecard their name was on when the round started. Losing a card during the round, joining another group because someone doesn't show up and leaves another group with only two players or a downpour during a round where a dry card is substituted before being turned in. It's a group decision to get the proper scores on a card and turn it in but it doesn't always happen the conventional way.

[Mike Kernan]

That's pretty well thought out there Chuck, and I'll accept the logic.

If only the pDGA Rules Committee were as capable.

[Steve Timm]

Another mystery of the universe about to be solved.
Could Chuck Kennedy be SN Forum's Sarcastic Sam?

Click here for SN Lost Card thread

[Mike Dussault]

Reminds me of the time in Minnesota in 2002 when Ted Phillips and I drove to Worlds. It was the same time that Corey Stringer died in the Minnesota heat during a Viking practice. Ted and I were shooting the same score on the third day of competition. It was right after the round on "Atupsomestrokes" Attison Oaks disc golf course. I had played fairly well and was looking forward to the possibility of playing with Ted in the morning. Somehow I was 3-4 holes behind him. I didn't think anything of it, thinking that quite a few golfers were shooting the same as we were. Turns out Reese Swinea(of flypad fame), whom I had played with the previous day forgot to turn in our scorecard. We were all penalized two strokes. We had all gone over the scores and confirmed them, I left and apparently so had Reese, with the scorecard! He came up to me the next day in the middle of my round and apologized for what happened. That was the first I heard of it! It ruined my round from that point on, and I finished weakly. I don't remember where I finished, I just remember wanting to beat Reese so bad and losing to him by two strokes.

[Karl Molitoris]

I hear horror stories like the one Mikey D told and it just make me advocate the "everyone keeps score for each player in the group and y'all turn them all in together" like they do at the Yetter (and a few others I've been told). It is NOT an encumbrance while playing and pretty much takes care of any "goofiness" that can occur.

Karl

[Chuck Kennedy]

Could Chuck Kennedy be SN Forum's Sarcastic Sam?

Not me, but apparently someone who reads the NEFA Board since he copied my answer there. Maybe Mikey?

I did make my first post there today under "cgkdisc"

[Steve Timm]

I know it is not you. Funny how Mike will bash you and then turn around and use your response verbatim without credit when it suits his needs.

Me, I will always abuse your positions. Give you credit when it is due but still include a pDGA slam of some sort.

steve timm

[Jeff Zipkin]

Could you back up your dissertation with some actual rules?

and can you ever say something without being a total doosh? you could have said the very same thing in a much less snotty way. but as you've proven time and time again, you know no other way.

[Mike Kernan]

Wow, you're pretty uptight. You might want to freshen up on how the internet distorts the communication of humans. Learn to think before assuming the worst.

I guess you totally missed where I told Chuck "That's pretty well thought out there Chuck, and I'll accept the logic."

Like nuclear power, the internet should only be used by the educated. Back to school Zippy!

[Bill Newman]

wayoverparmikey, your reputation and extensive digital record of being a total jackass will be tough to run away from for quite awhile

[Mike Kernan]

I'm sorry did you say something Newman?

[Bill Newman]

your reputation is improving

[Charlie Holmgren]

Haha!

[Matt Stroika]

Is that Katy Perry?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Mikey snagged a honeymoon photo...

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Is that Katy Perry?

[Brad Dahle]

underpar - I don't think I have ever read any of your posts, know nothing of your reputation, but when I read that sentence, I said the same thing to myself - why is this guy asking for an answer then challenging said answer by a rules guy - nothing to do with internet communication.

[Raymond W. Parrish]

What exactly qualifies one as a "rules guy" in wiings-world?

[Mike Kernan]

Thanks wiings!

[David Kardynal]

Another mystery of the universe about to be solved.
Could Chuck Kennedy be SN Forum's Sarcastic Sam?

Click here for SN Lost Card thread

Lol or someone elses brain is working one and the same.

[David Kardynal]

Could you back up your dissertation with some actual rules?

and can you ever say something without being a total doosh? you could have said the very same thing in a much less snotty way. but as you've proven time and time again, you know no other way.

Dink.^^^

[Mike Kernan]

I rip off stuff from this website all the time to post on SN


Do y'all have any idea how undereducated us southerners are in comparison to New Englanders? It's torture trying to have a multisyllabic conversation with "Biloxi Bomber" or "Shreveport Sally."

Cut your southern brother some slack