Two NEFA events at the same course.

[Trent Solomon]

I would like to propose a change to allow two NEFA events at the same course. one in winter and one in summer. and i am for closer events

[Matt Stroika]

I would like to propose a change to allow two NEFA events at the same course. one in winter and one in summer. and i am for closer events

Maybe they need to be separated by at least 4 months?

I am actually against anything that makes MORE NEFA events... unless they tier the events (i.e. NEFA regional events and NEFA state events). Just tooooo many NEFA events to have more than one at a course in the current set up.

[Jaxon Sheehy]

I would like to propose a change to allow two NEFA events at the same course. one in winter and one in summer. and i am for closer events

Maybe they need to be separated by at least 4 months?

I am actually against anything that makes MORE NEFA events... unless they tier the events (i.e. NEFA regional events and NEFA state events). Just tooooo many NEFA events to have more than one at a course in the current set up.

just curious- what is the actual problem with an abundance of NEFA events?

I'm not sure that having fewer events would increase the appeal. for me it wouldn't make a difference. if its at a course I like- i'll try to attend regardless of PDGA NEFA status. if its a NEFA event- I get points.

[Matt Aubin]

The problem with multiple events at one course is that players would REALLY not leave their backyard and still qualify.

The courses that don't have events now (cough*CT*cough) would still not have events, and the 'rich' would get richer. Might as well call it the central Mass points series.

It also takes away from the exclusivity of an event... 'oh, It's raining at X now, I'll just play the next one there.' IMO a course (and it's locals, club, team whatever) should take a NEFA event seriously and prepare for it; make more than one event a year at a course, and the care and work that goes into it will drop.

I really like all of the excitement and ideas thrown around the past few weeks, and I've kept quiet about a lot of it. Seems like there's a lot less bashing and arguing and more constructive work and discussion going on. That's awesome. That said, I'm here to speak up for the 'have nots...' people who are gonna struggle to get the required tournaments in, either by lack of events near you (cough*CT*cough) or by scheduling and other commitments.

I'm gonna make a wiiiide generalization and say that it seems (could be wrong) that a lot of new, fresh ideas for the point series seem to be coming from younger players (DG experience young, not necessarily age) in Massachusetts, who all compete against each other every weekend. All I ask is that, when tossing around ideas and possible changes like this for next year, you keep in mind those of us that DON'T live within an hour's drive of 15-20 courses. Disc Golf courses are special beasts with their own quirks and idiosyncrasies; local knowledge and practice pays off big at tourney time. To have 2 events per year at your home courses is just straight up unfair to those of us on the fringe of the big scene.

[Justin White]

So your saying it's unfair because live too far away

[Matt Aubin]

Nope. I put in thousands of miles traveling for practice and events this year. I am saying it's unfair to have more than one NEFA event at the same course in one season when there are multiple courses with no events. The locals of those courses have an easier road to qualify, cash, whatever you want to say. Like it or not, DG has 'home field advantage' especially in the lower divisions.

Let's face it... if there were 2 events allowed at a course every year.... what courses would those be? There would be some players who could qualify for finals without even getting in a car.

It sounds like I'm bitching about me traveling, but I'm not. I'm bitching about other players NOT traveling. Need proof? Just look at the season standings for points. The VAST majority of the top 10 players in each division are from Mass. It gets worse the further down you go in divisions.

[Justin White]

I see what your saying. This discussion was about the distances between events

[Matt Aubin]

yeah the thread drifted a bit. maybe jeff could split the thread, I think they're both valid things to talk about.

[Justin White]

ya even im confused now. i have been writing in the wrong thread.

[Kyle Stevens]

Its an interesting idea for sure, but I think it would cause a watering down of the points series (some already say thats happened).

It would definitely take away from some of the exclusivity associated with some events.

Whats your end game here?

[Matt Stroika]

Nope. I put in thousands of miles traveling for practice and events this year. I am saying it's unfair to have more than one NEFA event at the same course in one season when there are multiple courses with no events. The locals of those courses have an easier road to qualify, cash, whatever you want to say. Like it or not, DG has 'home field advantage' especially in the lower divisions.

Let's face it... if there were 2 events allowed at a course every year.... what courses would those be? There would be some players who could qualify for finals without even getting in a car.

It sounds like I'm bitching about me traveling, but I'm not. I'm bitching about other players NOT traveling. Need proof? Just look at the season standings for points. The VAST majority of the top 10 players in each division are from Mass. It gets worse the further down you go in divisions.

Its funny that the complaint is about too many in MA. A few years ago the same issue was happening in ME. Then they started the ME points series and the NEFA scene died down. I am suggesting that there be an in-state series as well as a regional series whereby you could qualify for finals through either means. Good for the traveler, good for the home body. Anything that keeps NEFA growing instead of shrinking like it has already done in ME will be a good thing.

[Matt Stroika]

I would like to propose a change to allow two NEFA events at the same course. one in winter and one in summer. and i am for closer events

Maybe they need to be separated by at least 4 months?

I am actually against anything that makes MORE NEFA events... unless they tier the events (i.e. NEFA regional events and NEFA state events). Just tooooo many NEFA events to have more than one at a course in the current set up.

just curious- what is the actual problem with an abundance of NEFA events?

I'm not sure that having fewer events would increase the appeal. for me it wouldn't make a difference. if its at a course I like- i'll try to attend regardless of PDGA NEFA status. if its a NEFA event- I get points.

Jax. The problem with the abundance of NEFA events is the watering down and lack of standards. The more the better as far as I am concerned but not all are equal.

[Matt Stroika]

This is a backwards move but I had an idea that might make this work. It involves a total restruction of the NEFA points and would likely be highly unpopular but in the end would probably cater to more individual's competitive needs.

Josh wrote a post somewhere about there being too many NEFA points events and if I remembered where I saw this I would have quoted it. I could not agree more and have echoed this myself for several years. Lets make the NEFA points tournaments mean something. Eliminate double points events and limit each state to 4-5 NEFA points events. These events must have very high standards...150%+ payouts as a minimum may be a new standard for these events.

Don't get rid of the other events but rather make and manage these as NEFA state events. Maybe the NEFA Points events in each state would count double towards the overall NEFA state series totals.

Finals could be a mix of a certain percentage of NEFA points and a few wild cards from each NEFA state points series.

There would be a lot of details to work out but I could see it working.

Quoting myself from the MA points thread.

[Karl Molitoris]

As anything grows (our sport is no different) there is a natural "flow" of segregation / separation of factions...as everyone wants to be the medium frog in their own little puddle (instead of a small frog in the only big pond). Just human nature folks.
Yes, eventually NEFA will "end up" being an umbrella organization - kind of like the PDGA may be perceived now - and focus will be on those functions closer to home.
Wasn't it just 5 or so years ago we were talking about how NO ONE (at least in central MA) seems to now travels to a league more than ~1/2 hour (...can't count bad Pike traffic )? This will only manifest itself more so in tournaments, as soon it will be a rare case when a person travels 2 hours to a tournament (won't need to as there'll be enough courses and players to fill them).

[Matt Stroika]

As anything grows (our sport is no different) there is a natural "flow" of segregation / separation of factions...as everyone wants to be the medium frog in their own little puddle (instead of a small frog in the only big pond). Just human nature folks.
Yes, eventually NEFA will "end up" being an umbrella organization - kind of like the PDGA may be perceived now - and focus will be on those functions closer to home.
Wasn't it just 5 or so years ago we were talking about how NO ONE (at least in central MA) seems to now travels to a league more than ~1/2 hour (...can't count bad Pike traffic )? This will only manifest itself more so in tournaments, as soon it will be a rare case when a person travels 2 hours to a tournament (won't need to as there'll be enough courses and players to fill them).

True True. There will be the travelling players if the BIG NEFA events are so big and so good and the rewards so high (prizes, points, etc.) that the best players in the divisions make it a point to attend these events. Too many small events with the same weight is watered down Crytal Light. Yuck!!

[Josh Connell]

Its funny that the complaint is about too many in MA. A few years ago the same issue was happening in ME. Then they started the ME points series and the NEFA scene died down. I am suggesting that there be an in-state series as well as a regional series whereby you could qualify for finals through either means. Good for the traveler, good for the home body. Anything that keeps NEFA growing instead of shrinking like it has already done in ME will be a good thing.

I don't recall any complaint of "too many" NEFA events in Maine. It was more that few players from out of state wanted to be bothered traveling to any of them, instead choosing to cry about the perception that we Mainers got more "easy" wins out of our smaller competitive pools.

NEFA's presence is going to continue to shrink in Maine (and I'd guess in other similarly too-far-to-register-with-most-people areas like VT) if the rules continue to be written and re-written with a distinct MA-centric bias, specifically the ever-shrinking mileage limit between events. On this year's schedule, there were six NEFA points events in Maine. Five out of six had competing NEFA events on the same day (three in MA, one in northern CT, one in VT), including the 2X event. Anyone want to take a guess which of those six had the highest attendance, especially from out-of-staters? Yup, the one that had the weekend to itself. Imagine that. But I thought the problem was all NEFA events were filling to the point where we need more and more often?

The solution to keeping NEFA at least moderately relevant in areas on the perimeter of the region (at least in my opinion)? Shrinking the size and breadth of the series and increasing the importance of the events that remain. I think Titan was on to something in suggesting a MA series. I think, and told him, that he was going about it backwards in working from the NEFA series rather than independently of it. A state series, not unlike the Green Mountain series or the MPT, serves the purpose of being a proving ground for players, courses, and TDs alike. The biggest or best 4-5 of these events could serve double-duty by being NEFA Points as well as state (perhaps 2X state points). NEFA events would be A-tiers to the state series' B and C-tiers, to put it in PDGA terms.

The alternative is to keep shrinking the minimum distance between events and to allow for multiple events per course during the year, and losing more events in the fringe areas of the region until the New England points series is essentially the southern New England series or the MA/CT series anyway. So we get to the same result, only without a true region-wide series to speak of.

[Matt Stroika]

Great post Josh. This is exactly what I was thinking but your post is much more well thought out. Hopefully NEFA is listening.

Josh for NEFA President!

[Rob Tatro]

Great post Josh. This is exactly what I was thinking but your post is much more well thought out. Hopefully NEFA is listening.

Josh for NEFA President!

2nd

[Matt Aubin]

The alternative is to keep shrinking the minimum distance between events and to allow for multiple events per course during the year, and losing more events in the fringe areas of the region until the New England points series is essentially the southern New England series or the MA/CT series anyway. So we get to the same result, only without a true region-wide series to speak of.

I agree with Josh, except for this last part; there were 3 CT events last year; one at a temporary course, one a 2 day event, and one at West Thompson (basically Mass.).

There were:

15 NEFA events in Mass.

6 in VT.

5 in NH.

6 in ME.

5 in NY.

3 in CT.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

There were:

15 NEFA events in Mass.

6 in VT.

5 in NH.

6 in ME.

5 in NY.

3 in CT.

39 weekends available in the 2011 Season. That's 78 days to run events. We used 40 of them.

[Jeff Prendergast]

Just face it folks, Massachusetts rules! Ask any masshole and we'll tell you.

We're getting credit for W.Thompson too. I would like to formally petition that Rindge and Rancho Rindge be considered part of Massachusetts as well. Look out Dover, NH...you're next!

[Trent Solomon]

I think my post got misinterpreted. I was trying to get the Ice Bowls and other winter tournaments sanctioned. the idea was to reward those that come out in the middle of winter to play and hopefully draw more people.

[Justin White]

Ice bowls are usually doubles.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Ice bowls are usually doubles.

Kisco Ice Bowl has been singles for as long as I've been going. NEFA sanctioned most years too.

[Trent Solomon]

Ice bowls are usually doubles.

Tully, Flat Rock, and RI arent. There are at least a few more that I am forgetting. plus the point of this is to GROW the amount of events and winter participation

[Titan Bariloni]

NEFA DUBZ

MA point series

nuff said

[Scott Howard]

There were:

15 NEFA events in Mass.

6 in VT.

5 in NH.

6 in ME.

5 in NY.

3 in CT.

and 1 in Jersey.......