pole hole suggestions requested

Jeff Zipkin · Post by **Jeff Zipkin** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:25 pm

we're in discussion with another state park here in NY about the installation of a course. the park manager seems to be on board with it, but we want to be careful about asking for TOO much. with that in mind, i am hoping to hear suggestions, thoughts, etc on pole holes. basically, which basket do you feel is the best bang for the buck, and who offers the best price on it that you know of? we'd be looking to buy at least 9 initially, but possibly all 18. i've been considering mach Vs, and chainstars, but am open to suggestions. any input is appreciated.

Will Kriewald · Post by **Will Kriewald** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:38 pm

gateway titans for sure, best catching basket on the market.

Dave McHale · Post by **Dave McHale** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:05 pm

I think the titan is FAR and away the best basket I've ever thrown at, but they're trying not to ask for too much Will... last I checked, one of the reasons many courses probably dont install the Titans (only 8 courses nationwide IIRC last I checked) is because they are on the expensive side.

I'm going to say that between your two most popular options of a Chainstar versus an Innova Disccatcher, my preference would be for the Chainstar. But you may find that opinion among players can be very divided on that topic.

Bill Newman · Post by **Bill Newman** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:23 pm

Call Harold Duval @ Innova, simply put, he is the man...........he will help you work with the park, give you the support you need and a fair deal on Innova Discatchers, the baskets used @ the USDGC...........also let me know if you need the contact info for the manager at FDR state park, she is a big fan of DG and she would be a good person for your park contact person to speak with .....................good luck on your project....BN

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:07 pm

Bill, is there truth to the rumor that Discatchers rust out in a few years? That's what I hear, but you da man when it comes to Discatchers so what's your report?

Jeff Zipkin · Post by **Jeff Zipkin** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:09 pm

thx bill. you're the 2nd person to drop harold duval's name. i may want his contact info if you've got it. and sure, i'd love the contact info for FDR's park manager.
thx for everyone's input.

drsmithsystem · Post by **drsmithsystem** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:18 pm

if you are into temporary targets check out my chronicle of the homemade variety at chaaaching.blogspot.com

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:49 am

drsmithsystem wrote:if you are into temporary targets check out my chronicle of the homemade variety at chaaaching.blogspot.com

Hey, those are great quirky baskets Rob. Thanks for putting the time into that and sharing it!

Dave Mourad · Post by **Dave Mourad** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:36 am

Personally I'm not a fan of DISCatchers - I shot at some and practiced putting while at HCC yesterday prior to relatives gathering - way too many chain-outs on average speed shots that went right into the heart of the basket - even I was surprised. The yellow band is annoying IMHO, but can be seen from far away, so there's one possible advantage.

Chainstars, Mach V or Titans are wht eay to go if you can afford them. I believe Discraft also works with your course installation package and will provide discount/free basket for a 9 or 18 hole purchase.

Bill Newman · Post by **Bill Newman** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:02 pm

Morgan, just ugly rumors.........see you at FDR IB?

Steve Frank · Post by **Steve Frank** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:39 pm

would tone poles be an easy and cheap short-term solution here?

Jeff Zipkin · Post by **Jeff Zipkin** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:14 pm

perhaps tone poles initially. we are in the VERY early stages. we first have to deicde which part of the park we would like to use that we feel they'd agree with, considering their constraints. we then need them to approve the use of the area, which will probably require going up and down the beaurocratic ladder a few times. we'd then begin course design, probably using my Mach Lite to test out hole layout. we'd then need to mark the layout and any trees we'd like removed. they'd then need to get approval for tree cutting. etc etc.
all in all it'll be a slow process, so tone poles may very well work for the initial installation, but we don't want them to get comfortable with that. we are looking for the best possible solution for us and them. what's going to make us happiest in the long run, and will be within their budget.

Josh Connell · Post by **Josh Connell** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:51 pm

If you're looking for a permanent pole hole that is also relatively low-cost, you should look at the DGA Mach II New. It isn't going to suck in the slightly errant (wide, high, etc) putts the way an expensive, heavily chained basket will but it catches well enough to satisfy 95% of your players.

IMO, Discatchers, Chainstars, Mach III, and other "top of the line" models tend to mask (by catching) more "bad" putts than the "cheaper" models reject supposedly "good" putts. Mach II New baskets are going to give you your bang for the buck and leave something in the budget for the rest of the course (always a plus with a park on a budget). Something else to consider...DGA also produces tee signs, so you might be able to get the complete package (18 Mach II New + 18 tee signs) for less than you'd pay for just the 18 Chainstars or Discatchers.

Too many courses are built backwards, IMO. They jump right in with the top of the line baskets, but end up "getting by" with marginal tees and fairways (and often put off improving those aspects of the course). Personally, given a choice, I'd rather play a course with really solid tees (concrete, rubber, well-built and maintained stonedust, etc) and average baskets than play on a course that has marginal to terrible tee areas (natural tees with, mud, roots, rocks or soft, diveted gravel or stonedust) and super-duper expensive baskets. Just my thoughts, YMMV.

--Josh

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:21 pm

Mach II New is a piece of, uh, food processed in vivo?

I had a Mach II New temporary pin on hole 17 at Hyzer Creek and compared to the other pins it was vastly inferior, it spit so much I thought it was a watermelon fest. I think a spitoon would have caught more than that horrible thing. The day I sold that piece of junk on ebay was a happy day for me.

Yeah Bill I hope to be at the IB if my angina ever goes away.

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:01 pm

I'd like to state my opionion. The name of this game is to hit the pole. That's the whole point. The chains and basket are only there to prove that you hit the pole. If you make a putt that goes right at the pole and it doesn't stay in the basket because the pin is a piece of "food processed in vivo," it is not a "supposedly good putt." It WAS a good putt, and you were robbed. Quality pins don't "mask" bad putts, they protect you from being robbed of good putts by crappy pins.

Your job is to hit the pole, not to "second guess" inferior equipment.

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:21 am

I'd like to state another opinion. If you buy top quality pins for $375 each, which is what Marshall St charges for top quality pins like Titan, Mach III, Discatchers (with the inner chains which you really need), or Chainstars, the costs for 18 holes is $6750. Now you think you can save a load of money buy buying Mach II for $275 each, the total cost for 18 pins is $4950. You saved $1800, that's not much really. Keep in mind, whatever you decide is permanent, you are stuck with those 18 pins forever, make sure you will be happy with them forever. 10 years from now, 20 years from now, you are forever stuck with the decision you made, to have crappy pins. If you decide to upgrade to good pins a few years later, you STILL have to pay the whole $6750, and the first set of pins is money wasted. If you buy crappy pins and enjoy the savings of $1800, how long is that $1800 going to last? That's 2 weeks pay. It's not worth it, you could have had a good course for so little extra.

It reminds me of people trying to save money on painting their house by buying cheap paint. Then, 3 years later, they have to paint the house again. If you buy expensive paint, you don't have to paint again for 20 years. DONT try to save money on pins, you will lose money. Get the best pins that exist, it will cost you LESS in the long run.

Maybe the best thing is to get Innova Discatchers without the inner set of chains, they are cheap, $275, and you can get the course installed cheap. Then, when you get extra money you can add the inner set of chains, and now you have top quality pins without having to buy a whole new set of pins!! That way all the money you spent on chains is still in the ground, you can add to it and retain your original investment. If you buy crappy pins like Mach II, you can't just add a set of inner chains, you have to pull the whole thing out of the ground and sell the iron as scrap. It's money wasted.

Jc vermynck · Post by **Jc vermynck** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am

on baskets vs. tee boxes:

we have the land but can't really erect anything ,permanent or out of place. You should know your parks expectations i guess
making decent tee boxes that appear natural is tough
like a ball golf box you can move it forward or back after wear.

we are currently building and working on purchasing 9 more holes
buy nice baskets you can take them with you