unplayable lie

[Andrew McManus]

Are there any other examples of unplayable lie situations outside of casual water and walls (rock walls, etc). An example would be a huge patch of thorny shrubs/vines or a poison ivy patch where it grows to head height. I'm assuming that if one's disc landed in an area of extremely thick brush, vines, pi, etc and they wanted to shoot from behind these patches to the nearest "clear" area behind their lie, then that would be a stroke (assuming the clear area is beyond the allowable distance behind one's marked lie)? Is this scenario allowable?

[Matt Buono]

If your in or near a bees nest u can take relief backwards without penalty

[Josh Connell]

Are there any other examples of unplayable lie situations outside of casual water and walls (rock walls, etc). An example would be a huge patch of thorny shrubs/vines or a poison ivy patch where it grows to head height. I'm assuming that if one's disc landed in an area of extremely thick brush, vines, pi, etc and they wanted to shoot from behind these patches to the nearest "clear" area behind their lie, then that would be a stroke (assuming the clear area is beyond the allowable distance behind one's marked lie)? Is this scenario allowable?

803.05 Obstacles and Relief
C. Optional Relief: A player may declare that he or she is taking optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie that is no closer to the hole, and on the line of play. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

803.06 Optional Rethrow
At any time, a player may elect to rethrow from the previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved, from an approximate lie as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

[Mike Connell]

If your in or near a bees nest u can take relief backwards without penalty

Could you please quote the rule that states this?

[Greg Wintrob]

803.05 Obstacles and Relief:
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

[Andrew McManus]

803.05 Obstacles and Relief:
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

thanks Greg....does the 5 meter limit mean that as long as you stay within that 5 meters, you don't get stroked?

[Matt Buono]

803.05 Obstacles and Relief:
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

thanks Greg....does the 5 meter limit mean that as long as you stay within that 5 meters, you don't get stroked?

Yes

[Josh Connell]

803.05 Obstacles and Relief:
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

thanks Greg....does the 5 meter limit mean that as long as you stay within that 5 meters, you don't get stroked?

If you find a lie within the 5 meters, you don't get stroked. However, you don't necessarily get all of the five meters in which to work. The key phrase is "nearest lie". You must take the nearest lie to the original. So if it's a case of a body of casual water, you take the first dry/playable lie. If that's only two meters back from the original, then that's all you get.

Gets a bit tricky when moving away from insects or animals as to what is a fair compromise between safe distance and nearest lie. But if you can safely take a stance and make a throw from a lie that's three meters away from the nest/animal, you don't necessarily get the benefit of the extra two meters. It's a judgment call from the group or an official that determines that.

I only clarify because it's a common misconception that the player gets to pick his spot anywhere on the 5 meter line, and players can use the rule to gain a better angle to the pin or around an obstacle. The rule is in place only to provide a safe stance, not necessarily a better shot.

[Andrew McManus]

Awesome, thank you for the clarification!