Ratings Crane Hill Pro vs Am

[Sean McCabe]

So I've seen this discussion before but I just don't understand how the ratings can be so much different.

Pro day
57 on shorts rating - 912
63 on longs rating - 952

Am day
57 on shorts rating - 898
63 on longs rating - 926

The tourneys were held on back to back days and from what I understand the weather was lovely both days so I don't see a big difference in the scores with the exception of most of the pros obviously shooting better than the AMs. Maybe Chuck or someone else can help.

I guess I just don't understand how the process works with propagators and such.

[Matt Stroika]

So I've seen this discussion before but I just don't understand how the ratings can be so much different.

Pro day
57 on shorts rating - 912
63 on longs rating - 952

Am day
57 on shorts rating - 898
63 on longs rating - 926

The tourneys were held on back to back days and from what I understand the weather was lovely both days so I don't see a big difference in the scores with the exception of most of the pros obviously shooting better than the AMs. Maybe Chuck or someone else can help.

I guess I just don't understand how the process works with propagators and such.

Because the rating system is flawed. If Feldberg and Avery were there a 57 would have been 935 and a 63 would have been 975.

[Sean McCabe]

That's what I'm saying. It seems like just by playing on the pro day you get a better rating and that seems messed up.

The rich get richer, ha.

[Tim Carter]

Last time we had this discussion Chuck indicated that propogators ratings comin in do not factor into the ratings coming out of an event...

Ratings are flawed regardless. Any one who watched McBeths final 2013 Memorial Round and
final 2013 Vibram round would tell you the vibram round should have been rated higher. I heard this directly from a pdga staff member as well.

[Bill Bertera]

looks like there are also about 20 more propagators on the pro day than the am.

i have no idea if that means anything.

[Sean McCabe]

looks like there are also about 20 more propagators on the pro day than the am.

i have no idea if that means anything.

Maybe it has to do with whether or not your putter has a bead...

[Bill Bertera]

looks like there are also about 20 more propagators on the pro day than the am.

i have no idea if that means anything.

Maybe it has to do with whether or not your putter has a bead...

I also just found out what "CE" means. If I can just figure out what those numbers mean on my discs, then I may be able to hold an intelligent conversation about discs.... eh, on second thought, I'd rather not.

[Dylan Courtney]

The same was true last year until the ratings went official, then they were the same. So you might just need to check back later.

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15629
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15623

[Sean McCabe]

Good to know Dylan. Now we play the waiting game...

[James Scanlon]

Good to know Dylan. Now we play the waiting game...

Ratings SHMATINGS, awesome win Sean regardless of the ratings. (600 rated putt during playoff on 1)

[Sean McCabe]

Good to know Dylan. Now we play the waiting game...

Ratings SHMATINGS, awesome win Sean regardless of the ratings. (600 rated putt during playoff on 1)

I rate that putt as a 0, but at least I didn't lose that way. That would have made a real sad Sean. I guess that's what happens when you already stink at putting and then you end up in a high pressure situation that you have never been in.

[Matt Stroika]

Good to know Dylan. Now we play the waiting game...

Ratings SHMATINGS, awesome win Sean regardless of the ratings. (600 rated putt during playoff on 1)

I rate that putt as a 0, but at least I didn't lose that way. That would have made a real sad Sean. I guess that's what happens when you already stink at putting and then you end up in a high pressure situation that you have never been in.

There are not enough 0 rated rounds. I hear lots of people talking about them but they just dont seem to show up on the score sheet.

[Charles Sawyer]

A typical AM propigator is very inconsistent vs the typical pro propigator whoms rating is very stable. As a result generally a tourny with a majority of "consistent" props yields better results then one of "inconsistent" props. The average pro is unlikely to shoot 75 points over rating, AMs do it all the time, and drop 75... The highest rated players are the most stable, hence why when theres a bunch of them in an event the ratings "look better". Thats my $.02.

[Troy Dietrich]

A typical AM propigator is very inconsistent vs the typical pro propigator whoms rating is very stable. As a result generally a tourny with a majority of "consistent" props yields better results then one of "inconsistent" props. The average pro is unlikely to shoot 75 points over rating, AMs do it all the time, and drop 75... The highest rated players are the most stable, hence why when theres a bunch of them in an event the ratings "look better". Thats my $.02.

Yup, you're on the right track there. Overall Pro's tend to shoot close to their ratings...whereas an all AM field generally has players that are improving on their current rating (statistically this means that the numbers will indicate that the course played easier), which lowers the round ratings.

It's good that they combined the pro-am rounds last year for divisions that played the same layout on different days...I hope they do it again when the official ratings come out.

[Troy Dietrich]

For [bleep] and giggles I ran both the pro and am rounds on the shorts through my ratings calculator, and came up pretty much with what they did. (off by a little, but I didn't go through it and remove any of the outliers...and there may be other non-active PDGA members effecting the results as well.)

Pro Day:


Am Day:

[Sean McCabe]

Thanks for breaking it down Troy. As a math major I appreciate this. And I'm probably one of only a few.

[Karl Molitoris]

I hope they do it again when the official ratings come out.

Not a chance (official results are in). A 112 was - in Pro - either a 973, a 975, or a 976, depending ; a 112 was - in AM - a 954.5. Nice system

[Doug Callaghan]

i dont get it, totally confused. Even if a Pro's rating is more predictable i dont get how there can be that big of a difference between rounds. 25 point difference seems huge for the same round under same conditions. unless sat was very windy or something, not sure on that.

[James Scanlon]

i dont get it, totally confused. Even if a Pro's rating is more predictable i dont get how there can be that big of a difference between rounds. 25 point difference seems huge for the same round under same conditions. unless sat was very windy or something, not sure on that.

The weather was the same all weekend

[Franklin Sullivan]

i dont get it, totally confused. Even if a Pro's rating is more predictable i dont get how there can be that big of a difference between rounds. 25 point difference seems huge for the same round under same conditions. unless sat was very windy or something, not sure on that.

Put simply - I think - more propogator Ams played rounds better than their rating, so quality rounds are rated lower because the propogators who threw them have a lower current rating. It's definitely not ideal, and it didn't occur to me, but it's probably one of the downsides of playing separate days for Pro/Am

[Bill Bertera]

i dont get it, totally confused. Even if a Pro's rating is more predictable i dont get how there can be that big of a difference between rounds. 25 point difference seems huge for the same round under same conditions. unless sat was very windy or something, not sure on that.

Put simply - I think - more propogator Ams played rounds better than their rating, so quality rounds are rated lower because the propogators who threw them have a lower current rating. It's definitely not ideal, and it didn't occur to me, but it's probably one of the downsides of playing separate days for Pro/Am

couldn't they list the 2 days together so the rounds would be rated together?

[Franklin Sullivan]

i dont get it, totally confused. Even if a Pro's rating is more predictable i dont get how there can be that big of a difference between rounds. 25 point difference seems huge for the same round under same conditions. unless sat was very windy or something, not sure on that.

Put simply - I think - more propogator Ams played rounds better than their rating, so quality rounds are rated lower because the propogators who threw them have a lower current rating. It's definitely not ideal, and it didn't occur to me, but it's probably one of the downsides of playing separate days for Pro/Am

couldn't they list the 2 days together so the rounds would be rated together?

Someone on this thread said they did that last year...I would guess that would help to even things out a bit? Seems like simple solutions aren't always as beloved as they should be

[Troy Dietrich]

I hope they do it again when the official ratings come out.

Not a chance (official results are in). A 112 was - in Pro - either a 973, a 975, or a 976, depending ; a 112 was - in AM - a 954.5. Nice system

How do you know this? PDGA is still listing the ratings for this year as unofficial....and last year they do appear to have combined the two days, since ratings were identical for both pro and am.

[Karl Molitoris]

I'm only going by what the PDGA events schedule page(s) show; a white / clear trophy (they say) indicate "unofficial ratings" and a yellow trophy indicate "official ratings".

Karl

[Josh Connell]

I'm only going by what the PDGA events schedule page(s) show; a white / clear trophy (they say) indicate "unofficial ratings" and a yellow trophy indicate "official ratings".

Karl

Yellow trophy means official results, not official ratings (hovering over the yellow trophy reveals that info). Official results means players have been credited with their points earned in the event, but the ratings don't go official until the next update (scheduled for 9/30/14).

[Karl Molitoris]

OK, I stand corrected.

Karl