Western MA and AMHERST

[Titan_Bariloni]

I am calling OUT western MA
WTF is going on over there?

Have the solid vets all given up?
Are no new recruits stepping up?
Has love of the game transitioned to profit from the game

I have been stuck here on the outskirts in Franklin County trying to get things wrapped up for a Greenfield push

I am took my trip to play Conway today and a few others

Conway well is what it is....I have fun but then I am also sad
Noho I won't even consider
HCC nope

So we went to Amherst after wow just frigging wow what a HUGE pile of rubbish

Every basket basically new but damaged, snapped,bent,improperly installed, every one looked like crap

It was a disgrace to the sport! nefa members $$$$$$ and many other things

The course has not evolved ever since the day it was installed,in fact it is almost unplayable

zero signs, zero tees, bent or broken baskets

amazingly people were playing and the product offered is a joke

this is not negative this is fact!


nefa spent money here....time to protect your investment

like I said Umass not coming up with the $$$$ was a joke, and giving money to a course that has zero local volunteers and no plan was a joke

I seriously believe if not fixed the course should be pulled

I also saw no word of nefas donation anywhere at all, so what was the benefit here?

discuss

[Paul Sullivan]

Hey Titan....

[b]Once again your delivery sucks.[/b] If the course is screwed up at UMASS then leave it alone. If you haven't figured it out by now, you must have a group of individuals that want to spend time making "their" course better or it will inevitably fail. That is just the way it is.

Finish what you started at Royalston FNG. Finish the tee pads, make better signs, design a nice scorecard and map etc etc

Every course is different and some are better than others. That is just the way it is and always will be.

The solid VETS have not given up, we are just smart enough to put our efforts towards something that is worth it.

lots of new players don't want to spend the time required to help maintain a course, they will just go to another course.

The truth is there are many more choices out there now, if the course goes to crap then they just drive 15 more minutes to another one.

[Titan_Bariloni]

very true sull

this is not about tees, design, choices

this is about baskets that were granted and grossly damaged in such a short period of time that looks to be from no act of vandalism but rather improper installation from start...is my guess

yes many choices around....but when you ask for $$$$ and receive $$$$$ and course fails what happens?

and part of the deal was nefa signage heck there is one tee sign left there on hole 1 the entire rest zero signs


a private course fails so be it, it'sreally on the property owner not the volunteeeers!
if they wanted the course and cameto dgers and then offered almost zero help....well tis life

a public course fails well if the DG'ers were the ones propositioning for course then yes it does fall on all are shoulders as a community



will I ever truly be done up there NO, will tees get done YES this year NO
My hands are completely tied on the map and kiosk

scorecards are done..but do people even really need scorecards anymore

better tee signs will come once tees are final before that is a complete waste of time and money as things change in infancy of course heck even after many years so ever changing

I will wager that more work was put in at RFG in a month then the entire project of actual physical work at Umass, besides mowing but they mowed before anyways

this really isn't about any of this though

it's about a project receiving $$$$ for baskets then said baskets except one hole all going to shart literally snapped from the collars with jagged metal leaning at a 45angle to the point they are almost unputtable

I refuse to accept that the community can't come together and help what could should have been a huge slam dunk for DG


edit...I got benches higher on the list at RFG then scorecards...

also I enjoyed Umass before and saw potential serious, of course I wasnever a fan ofprickers but they have reduced and well keep it in fairway.....today was just really sad to see literally zero effort then the last time I was there 2 years ago......does nobody help anymore...just play play play?

cuz if that is really the norm well then maybe I should just play play play play but I can't I have a deeper respect for the sport then that

[Jason Southwick]

Thanks for the update on Amherst Titan. I've heard similar from players who've been there.

Because it's New England, with lots of trees and lots of rocks -- and hills and ponds and cliffs and ledges -- the way we do it is design and build. We don't just design; we build it too. And, yes, people come.

It's slower that way but our courses, over time, get better and better. We have the Internet now, so research is easier. And with more courses, expectations and standards rise.

Designing and building a course is a hard thing. It's why everyone wants to do it, to feel it, to be a part of the creation.

Still every piece of land that will become a disc golf course would become a different disc golf course if someone else built it. In fact, if 100 different people, with the usual 95 percent firmly believing they can design a better than average disc golf course, designed a course on the same piece of land (presumably without sharing ideas or running into each other), they'd certainly design 100 different courses.

A large majority of which would go clockwise, because most of us are righties and because our discs fade left we need to keep going right and our brains lead us in directions we're unaware of.

Titan you're my hero. It's ridiculous that so many people dismiss you as a crackpot -- maybe your rambling posts...

But you're right on brutha.

Build sustainable courses, ones that someone else will take care of once you leave, preferably with a bar at Hole 18.

Lick said something good: "Begin with Holes 1 and 18 and work from there."

To which I heartily agreed, although it was the first time I heard that disc golf course building truism.

Then again, maybe _I_ was the one who told HIM that, years ago. Still, it sounded fresh.



And for that to happen it has to be worth saving/expanding/rethinking/maintaining in the first place.

Yeah baby.

[Jason Southwick]

Okay maybe that wasn't completely coherent. Frankly, I don't have the time to be coherent 100 percent of the time.

[Karl Molitoris]

Coherent enough / better than most (people's posts). 'Tis a shame that ANY course only 3-4 years old could fall into disrepair so quickly. I'm thinking that it was never REALLY installed to begin with! IMO 9 baskets and 9 tee locations do not constitute a dg course. Yes one can 'play' dg on such but come on, do a course proud when you put it in. We had to guess where 3 or 4 of the tee were supposed to be. Several baskets could easily be pulled out of the ground. 1 just basically fell over. NG.
Karl

[Titan_Bariloni]

I did while there appears some baskets were moved

and now I hear maybe contractors moved

could be responsible

[Franklin Sullivan]

Even at a University (perhaps especially), there should really be a designated point-person responsible for course equipment. Contractors shouldn't be trusted to take care of baskets. In a perfect world, this course would have been built at a University that had a faculty or staff member (grounds crew, maybe, or someone like me...but I'm at the wrong University) who plays the sport and would have taken responsibility. Unfortunately, unless I'm mistaken, it was built as part of a Master's thesis, and Master's students don't often stick around after completing their thesis (not to mention, maybe there would be legal issues with having a former student and non-employee take responsibility for course maintenance, etc.) ...so now who has the keys to the locks? Seems that it's most likely someone who doesn't get it.

I played the course once. At the time it was ok, but signage was pretty bad already. And that is important, and sort of an indication of what's being put into a course. I think it's possible for a course to be built, and a community to develop around it after - the Peabody course is small and only 9 holes, but even that has developed a following and has been maintained fairly well especially considering the small piece of land it's built on. Like Jason alluded to, it's a grassroots sport and courses need love and need a following to stay sustainable. There's real potential in growing disc golf by putting courses on college campuses throughout the northeast I think, but hopefully UMass won't serve as the example.

I guess my biggest concern is that with student turnover (4 years, generally) it's difficult to establish emotional investment in a course that would make it sustainable, and I really think University courses in general would benefit from a lower turnover employee in the University taking the lead. Where are the faculty members and staff at? How have none of them picked up disc golf yet?? It's a healthy alternative to working through your lunch break.

Titan isn't a crackpot, he'd just benefit from a translator.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Titan isn't a crackpot, he'd just benefit from a translator.

[Titan_Bariloni]

I don't think a person in the world could translate these thoughts

[Thomas Bentley]

I don't think a person in the world could translate these thoughts

Maybe you check in with with Watson the IBM computer like Bob Dylan just did: http://ultimateclassicrock.com/bob-dyla ... ommercial/

[Brian Giggey]

I guess I can weigh in here since our firm designed UMass (and Peabody).

- The course wasn't designed as a Master Thesis. It was done as a labor of love. The Master Plan allowed 9 holes with a ton of stipulations and wetland setbacks permitting. We were lucky to get what we did. We were never the ones to take care of the course. We designed it and helped all we could. After that, it's just like all of our other courses, let it go and hope a group grabs a hold of it.

- Signage, kiosk and tee pads are still not approved. Our firm made temporary signage about 6-8 times and eventually stopped. Laminating and printing signs gets old, especially when it comes out of pocket. When the University approves signage, we will print them (full color on metal) and have Facilities install them.

- Peabody is a good example. Their City paid for the design, install and permanent signs. The course is getting good use and has solid reviews. Sadly, UMass hasn't had that same following...maybe due to turnover? Is it my favorite course? No. The back 9 is much more technical and advanced-oriented, but we may never get to that.

- Facilities Management was behind this course full force. I may have to touch base to see if there are still mowing, if they can print signs and if trash pick up is a concern?

- As soon as signage is allowed, NEFA and Pure Flight's logos will go up. We don't really have much say there, as I'm sure you understand. It's a large government entity and things move slowly and get buried easily.

- In terms of love for the game vs. money (from other post), it's both My mortgage isn't free and we're trying to build a business. Things are going very well (7 permament course in 2015 so far), but there is still lots of love. We traveled 8,000 miles with The Mobile Disc Golf Experience this year setting up temp courses, handing out free loaners and eating PB&J sandwiches in our van. It hasn't been easy, but damn is it fun.

- Titan, if you'd ever like to walk this course, send me an email and lets lock down a time. UMass was our first and its sad to hear all this, but it is what it is. I love brutal honesty, and I'd be happy to answer any questions about signage, money, etc.

- In terms of other Western MA projects, we have some fun ones in the works

[Titan_Bariloni]

I know you love theee sport we play

brutal honesty hmmmm

the shart bags who use the course are abusing it
the contractors who moved stuff around are idiots

the signage well Umass needs to get on it or give back the baskets they received from grant $$$

grass was mowed, trash was minimal

scores scores scores that is what the people who use that course care about

we could walk it, but I doubt that would accomplish anything
lets meet and play a round sometime maybe in shuetsbury at the new 9er

I would love to pass on my ACOE wisdom give himmy email rt2dgc@gmail.com

keep on blazing forward Gigs

[Titan_Bariloni]

Brian PM sent as well

this is not about gigs or his firm

this is about idiots who destroyed baskets, neglected the course.people whoplay play play and score brag but but can't even lean a basket back to upright position

maybe their scores would be better if they putted onan upright basket

also about Umass PTB taking grant money from a grass roots org and can't even follow through with signs for course and for donators, at the same time allowing those baskets to be destroyed with what seems to be not a care in the world what happens out there

that to me is the biggest disgrace

guess getting their crap football team tv exposure that has costed them millions is more important
what idiot would think having your skooool get blown out by 50 on national television is a recruiting tool

and what idiot would have their skoools teamplay IDK 60 miles away at Gillette rather on campus a good idea

the same idiot who can't even thank people who DONATED to acause on the actual campus grounds

IDC how small compared to other projects...it is the principal of taking and not thanking

anyways THANKS Gigs for your efforts...I hope they are not in vain

[Titan_Bariloni]

and as far as western MA goes..huge shout out to CRane

just today at the quabbin overlook I was talking to people and all had great things to say..none I had met before in my life and it was crazy we all got on that topic

great job down there! but is that really western ma?

[Brian Giggey]

In regards to Army Corps, I'll send him your email right now and tell him to get in touch.

[Titan_Bariloni]

word

[James Reinle]

I retired from the Umass Athletic Dept. a couple of years ago, and play the course there once in a while. The last time I played work was being done on 9 and 3, all the other baskets looked good at that time, but that was back in June. I would love to be able to do work at the course, but unfortunately I have my own course in Northampton that takes a lot of my free time to maintain. Next time you are going to be in the area, hit me up before, at blueherondgc@yahoo.com if you are interested in playing my course. Umass has always been a get bids, do the least amount of money to get something built, then wait, wait, wait, to add the infrastructure to support or improve it later. The softball/soccer/track complex is one example years after they were finished building them. needed press boxes, and grand stands were added, and the track is still waiting for a much needed storage building. The problem is, UMass gets tons of money from the state for building stuff, but zilch for maintaining them. Many things are done on a shoe string, and sometimes with out the proper forethought on what will be needed in the future.
One of the things that I thought would be a no brainer there, would be to get the Stockbridge Agricultural College at Umass involved in the course. Many graduates of Stockbridge go on to do landscaping, greens keeping and golf course maintenance.