Rule of verticality ?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

This phantom rule was brought up yesterday and I questioned its existence. A players disc came to rest under a foot bridge and he wanted to mark and throw from on the bridge. I said the lie was playable as is(he could easily get his foot to the marker).

The TD said that a player has the option of establishing a lie on top of a permanent obstacle but I don't see this wording in the rules.

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rule ... and-relief

[Josh Connell]

That TD is wrong. If the disc is on a playing surface, you play from that playing surface. You don't get to choose a new one.

The only instance in which you can move a lie up or down like that is if the disc is not on a playing surface already. For example, a disc that rolls into a culvert pipe. Another example would be a rocky surface like the green on hole 11 at Buffumville...if a disc slid between a couple boulders there such that you can't get a foot (or hand) behind the disc to take a stance.

If the ground under the bridge is in bounds and a stance can be taken (not a comfortable one necessarily, but a stance), then that's where the player has to play from.

Put another way, a bridge is park equipment like a picnic table. You can't stand on a picnic table if you land under it (landing on it is a different argument). Bridge is the same thing.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Thanks Josh. Same thought I had about park equipment. I cringe every time I hear someone say it out of context.

Rule of verticality only applies to the OB line, where a disc comes to rest above the physical line.

[James Scanlon]

How does this apply in casual water? I saw this occur at Flat Rock where someone landed underneath the bridge in casual water and couldn't take a stance but was allowed to mark it directly above it and play from the bridge/

[Jeff Wiechowski]

How does this apply in casual water? I saw this occur at Flat Rock where someone landed underneath the bridge in casual water and couldn't take a stance but was allowed to mark it directly above it and play from the bridge/

The way I've interpreted the rule(green wording) is that you can relocate AWAY from the target. But if the bridge AND the creekbed are both considered the playing surface, relocating your lie on the bridge is OK provided there is room to stand there.

The instance I was referring to was a dry creekbed with a bridge over it and the player considered the bridge to be a "Casual Obstacle" when in fact it is a permanent part of the course/park.

803.01 B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

[Jay Nourse]

Hole 13 maple hill countless times people have been under the bridge next to the green stance is accessible from underneath and they play from on the bridge saw it happen at the vibram this year and the "rule of verticality" was mentioned first person I ever heard use that a few years back was Jon Gordon lol

[Titan_Bariloni]

what if the TD defines under a bridge as not the playing surface?

[Mike Murphy]

what if the TD defines under a bridge as not the playing surface?

Then shouldn't that be considered OB? Its physical land, but if its unplayable for any reason that should be out of bounds.

[Drew Smith]

You could move up to the bridge (with stroke), right?

803.02.A - Optional Relief. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie which is no closer to the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw shall be added to the player's score.

[Drew Smith]

The only instance in which you can move a lie up or down like that is if the disc is not on a playing surface already. For example, a disc that rolls into a culvert pipe. Another example would be a rocky surface like the green on hole 11 at Buffumville...if a disc slid between a couple boulders there such that you can't get a foot (or hand) behind the disc to take a stance.

Isn't that an unplayable playing surface? Same with the shed at Amesbury on winter layout hole 9.