NEFA Points updates

[Gary Cyr]

And thats a Bull$hit excuse Gary. There are plenty of people out there willing to volunteer their time to help solve this problem. Paul Sullivan offered right here on the forums. I bet he didnt even get a PM about it.
When the board gets off its duff, officially recognizes that this is a problem, and starts actively seeking volunteers to help...the volunteers will come. The problem is not lack of volunteers..it is lack of motivation by the powers that be to correct a long standing issue. We need to stop placating to the board and demand action. If they put out the call for help and no one answers...then I can accept that as an excuse...but not until. I, for one, will step up and do what I can.

Your right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. How could I? After all I have no experience in this organization that would give me any insight as to what goes on. Maybe part of it also is the rash of shiit it seems all volunteers get in this organization from those that don't voluteer. Especialy those that come on the board with no experience listing all these great ideas they have,..like nobody has ever thought of these ideas.

I stand corrected.

Thanks for volunteering.

Have a nice day

[Kyle Stevens]

And thats a Bull$hit excuse Gary. There are plenty of people out there willing to volunteer their time to help solve this problem. Paul Sullivan offered right here on the forums. I bet he didnt even get a PM about it.
When the board gets off its duff, officially recognizes that this is a problem, and starts actively seeking volunteers to help...the volunteers will come. The problem is not lack of volunteers..it is lack of motivation by the powers that be to correct a long standing issue. We need to stop placating to the board and demand action. If they put out the call for help and no one answers...then I can accept that as an excuse...but not until. I, for one, will step up and do what I can.

Your right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. How could I? After all I have no experience in this organization that would give me any insight as to what goes on. Maybe part of it also is the rash of shiit it seems all volunteers get in this organization from those that don't voluteer. Especialy those that come on the board with no experience listing all these great ideas they have,..like nobody has ever thought of these ideas.

I stand corrected.

Thanks for volunteering.

Have a nice day

Gary..I didnt see you throw out any insight at all! I dont think saying "Another person suggesting that NEFA find and train more volunteers,..without actually voulnteering themselves" is an insightful remark at all. I think it is symptomatic of a growing apathy within this organization. I think it demonstrates a willingness to allow this organization to settle for a lower standard. But its not a personal shot

So whats YOUR solution then?? Ignore it?? Chalk another NEFA failure up to "its hard to get volunteers" ??? I havent seen you come up with any ideas.

Its constant..people point out legitimate issues here and it gets swept under the rug! All under the guise of their volunteer status. I greatly appreciate what volunteers do for this organization but the point is..these guys made a commitment to support this organization..and sometimes that means finding someone else for the job.

[Gary Cyr]

So whats YOUR solution then?? Ignore it?? Chalk another NEFA failure up to "its hard to get volunteers" ??? I havent seen you come up with any ideas.

Do some research kid!

Thousands of dollars given out to courses for developement
Thousands of Dollars given to non Frisbee Charities from the NEFA auction.
Helped to successfully grow the sport here in New England
Many years of successful Points series
Points System has become easer to implement and maintain
NEFA now 501c3
Lots of other stuff to my friend

Sorry NEFA doesn't have your points all up to date

Ya,..NEFA is a failure

[Kyle Stevens]

We should have a permanent thread created for NEFA volunteerism on here...I think that would be a real good start. Rather than random postings of offers to help, lets get em all corralled into one easy to access permanent sticky thread. I personally think that there are certainly many issues that NEFA needs to improve upon..from communication to recruitment and I feel that we are certainly working towards making those improvements.

Working in a field that relies heavily on volunteerism, I can personally attest to the fact that getting ppl motivated to volunteer for something is a real challenge...always has been and probably always will be. Keeping a sustained volunteer base is even more challenging. I'm not stating this to be argumentative, just based on my own personal experiences where we have put the word out and still got very little interest in return...its just reality.

I think creating a thread for that is an awesome idea Andrew.

I ran a volunteer organization for several years as part of a management team. It was an organization dedicated to a hobby..one that most members were very pasionate about...and yes..sometimes it was difficult to find the "right" volunteer..but we usually had no shortage of people willing to help out. I can not think of an group of people more dedicated and more pasionate about a hobby than disc golfers. Especially here in New England. I really really feel like its a matter of not aiming our sights high enough.

I mean...look at the front page of the website alone. We have had a new NEFA logo for what...a year? Besides the day it was announced as the winning design..it wasnt displayed on the NEFA front page until you used it to advertise finals in the blog. It just a damn shame. I applaud guys like you Andrew for stepping up to the plate, im glad you do what you do and I am confident that when you decide you do not want to do it anymore..youll pass it on to qualified hands.

[Kyle Stevens]

So whats YOUR solution then?? Ignore it?? Chalk another NEFA failure up to "its hard to get volunteers" ??? I havent seen you come up with any ideas.

Do some research kid!

Thousands of dollars given out to courses for developement
Thousands of Dollars given to non Frisbee Charities from the NEFA auction.
Helped to successfully grow the sport here in New England
Many years of successful Points series
Points System has become easer to implement and maintain
NEFA now 501c3
Lots of other stuff to my friend

Sorry NEFA doesn't have your points all up to date

Ya,..NEFA is a failure

I didnt say that you havent done anything for disc golf. Im talking about solutions to the problem of getting the goddamn points updated in a reasonable fashion. Im also NOT trying to insinuate that NEFA is a failure. Im saying that improvements need to be made and I am sick of the excuses given for why they wont happen. We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Not having a points series update with a WEEK left in the season is unacceptable..especially considering that the points series is really the only thing NEFA has to offer its membership.

With all your listed experience I would think that you would have some meaningful input to correct the issue..

[Andrew McManus]

Thanks Kyle, i certainly will be sure to find a suitable replacement, tho I plan on sticking around for the long haul as I want to see NEFA improve as much as you and many others do.

Regarding the new NEFA logo, I'm glad you touched on that...I posted that very subject on the nefa board thread and haven't heard back yet, but I'll keep pestering until I find out how we can replace the old logo with the new one...hopefully should be a simple process and quite honestly, one that should've been accomplished shortly after the winning logo was chosen.

Look for good things to come from NEFA Kyle, I think we've got an excellent crew of volunteers in place right now and it won't be long before we make needed improvements to this organization ....of and for the members!

Peace!

[Titan Bariloni]

Another person suggesting that NEFA find and train more volunteers,..without actually voulnteering themselves.

Gary..I started to read from where I last posted..I read the above quote

I gotta say it got me heated a lil bit..I don't care to find it...I know this same statement sent me on a mission from you a few years back

I don't need to read anymore of the I am sure post war after(although I will ) to know it prob got ugly

well back to the point...those words kinda made sense to me years ago..and kinda made me wanna put my money where my mouth was...

I now say total BS on that.....Nefa HAS not done a great job in managing the opportunities available within the membership or outside of it for resources to better promote DG..and the point series

Even when members who are dedicated to DG BEG to volunteer....

I could go on and on...and I am sure my nerve will be struck somewhere enough on this thread to compile facts and info all in plain view that support my statement

until then I have stuff to do more important then talk about the merits of certain nefa issues....cuz this could open pandora's box real quick...and peeeps don't wannnna hear how I really feeeel...some may cry

[Titan Bariloni]

Thanks Kyle, i certainly will be sure to find a suitable replacement, tho I plan on sticking around for the long haul as I want to see NEFA improve as much as you and many others do.

why....just why..?

and you preach tact....passive aggresive BS...was he talking about you..? have you been doing some volunteer work for nefa..? I say yes....so why with the BS

you people really have no clue then preach about NO clue...are you serious..I couldn't even get a copy of the frigggging MASTER COPY of the points charter as the CHAIR W?O Dave giving me grief...then get grief for not having it IN...I gotta end that there or people are gonnnnnnna not like the words

the dudes trying to work with ya hear...oh god this all brings back memories...Its like friiiigin reliving the past...

some guy is basically saying I WILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL and AM ABLE to HELP NEFA....and what does he get..? I gotta remove myself from keyboard

[Andrew McManus]

Thanks Kyle, i certainly will be sure to find a suitable replacement, tho I plan on sticking around for the long haul as I want to see NEFA improve as much as you and many others do.

why....just why..?

and you preach tact....passive aggresive BS...was he talking about you..? have you been doing some volunteer work for nefa..? I say yes....so why with the BS

Whoa Titan!!...easy does it...I think you've misconstrued my quoted comment here...to be absolutely clear, what I meant was if I do move on from NEFA (aka, no longer have the time to volunteer), I would be sure to find a suitable replacement..that's all..no hidden meaning nor anything remotely derrogatory or anything at all...just a response to Kyle's post, that's all... I can see now how my comment was misconstrued based on how it was worded but believe me that was not how I meant it to be interpreted

[Titan Bariloni]

yeah yeah..I see now...Gary struck the same nerve that was struck years ago....and I can now say after trying that it is BS so I am breaking the cycle and calling BS

[Gary Cyr]

yeah yeah..I see now...Gary struck the same nerve that was struck years ago....and I can now say after trying that it is BS so I am breaking the cycle and calling BS

And I wasn't talking to you.

Talking to a guy in 22nd position in AM2 who based on past experience of invitees and attendance will almost certainly get invited and have the opportunity to go to the finals.

Since he's scheduled to play at Borderlands just quit complaining, go to Borderlands and GET IT DONE, so he moves up.

This is so not worth it.

Dude says "points Series is all NEFA has to offer it members",..has no friggen clue what NEFA is about.

[Kyle Stevens]

yeah yeah..I see now...Gary struck the same nerve that was struck years ago....and I can now say after trying that it is BS so I am breaking the cycle and calling BS

And I wasn't talking to you.

Talking to a guy in 22nd position in AM2 who based on past experience of invitees and attendance will almost certainly get invited and have the opportunity to go to the finals.

Since he's scheduled to play at Borderlands just quit complaining, go to Borderlands and GET IT DONE, so he moves up.

This is so not worth it.

Dude says "points Series is all NEFA has to offer it members",..has no friggen clue what NEFA is about.

Its not just about me and my opportunity to go to finals!! Why cant you understand that?? What about the guy who is on the fence about playing another tournament to make it to finals?? Its not even about that guy!! Its about doing what is supposed to be done. Its about following through and improving. Are you really that shortsighted?

What else does NEFA offer its individual membership besides the point series...and the dubz series?? What is luring new members to the organization? Oh yeah...a re-usable score card!

[Jeff Wiechowski]

What else does NEFA offer its individual membership besides the point series...and the dubz series?? What is luring new members to the organization? Oh yeah...a re-usable score card!

1. Cash grants that individual members can apply for and use to create/improve courses.
2. A not-for-profit sanctioning body that prospective sponsors will have a better tendency to give money/merchandise to TDs(also individual members).

All i can think of off the top of my head.........

[Dave McHale]

- DnD is in
- Newton Hill is in
- Buffumville Dam is in
- Village Open is in

SUBMISSIONS MISSING FROM THE TD's
- Streamside
- Lavalee (same TD as streamside)
- this weekend's events... Burke View, NH States, Bare Bones Barre

[Kyle Stevens]

What else does NEFA offer its individual membership besides the point series...and the dubz series?? What is luring new members to the organization? Oh yeah...a re-usable score card!

1. Cash grants that individual members can apply for and use to create/improve courses.
2. A not-for-profit sanctioning body that prospective sponsors will have a better tendency to give money/merchandise to TDs(also individual members).

All i can think of off the top of my head.........

Yes there are those things Jeff, but do you think those are the reasons people are joining NEFA? I understand the whole package sells the cookie...but if there were no points series...would the membership base stay the same? I do not have to be a member to play a NEFA tournament correct? You dont have to be a NEFA member to get a grant either from what I read.
The question is not what NEFA does for DG or the DG community at large...because it is well known that it does a lot.
To the individual member...the primary perk of joining NEFA is the ability to compete in the points.

[Kyle Stevens]

- DnD is in
- Newton Hill is in
- Buffumville Dam is in
- Village Open is in

SUBMISSIONS MISSING FROM THE TD's
- Streamside
- Lavalee (same TD as streamside)
- this weekend's events... Burke View, NH States, Bare Bones Barre

What about the RI states 2x points event?
AM2 Newton and DnD points are blank
Matt Duquette took 2nd place at Village but no points to reflect.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

So your main gripe is with the timing of points updates..........

If you don't already know, let me try to explain it as its been explained to me(forgive me is it's not complete, this is from memory/3rd person/rumors/etc).

The points program was written by Dave McHale and/or the company he works for.
They allow us to use it for free.
One of the stipulations was that its only to be used on the company premises(so Dave is the only one that can enter info/updates).
Dave has work and a life so he's limited as to the time he has to make said updates.

I believe research has been done to buy a similar program but I don't know the result of research.

[Kyle Stevens]

So something bad happens to Dave and buh-bye NEFA points? I have heard that before and prayed that it wasnt true. It doesnt make much sense.
Im no programmer but my quess is that its just some kind of database..like SQL or something with a data mining inerface.
I have a good friend who is a programmer, a damn good one. Ill speak with him about what doing something like this would entail and Ill get an estimate while Im at it.

[Chris Bolton]

Pdga has a schedule for ratings update. They don't update every week after events.

Maybe Nefa can set a couple points update times though out the season then people don't keep asking when it will happen. They will
Know by looking at a schedule.

[Gary Cyr]

I have a good friend who is a programmer, a damn good one. Ill speak with him about what doing something like this would entail and Ill get an estimate while Im at it.

Here we go again. Somebody that says they will help and then decides they are going to run off and investigate the whole process for its cost and efficiencies. Sorry, but I don't call that "help". Maybe you can recreate the entire wheel for this process that I talked with Dave Mchale about 4 years ago when Josh Connell decided he no longer could upkeep the then current system. And the system we had could no longer handle the number of events NEFA was putting on.

Here’s my idea. You want to help?,.... then do something that helps. Obviously, Dave is busy. Yes the whole thing is a Database. Once the spreadsheet is properly completed and turned in to Dave, it’s pretty easy for him to just drop it into the system, and yes only he can do that. It’s the chasing down of the T.D.’s and getting it filled out properly with everyone’s proper NEFA number that's the real challenge.
Here’s my suggestion.

Send Dave McHale an IM and tell him you will be his personal assistant. You will take it upon yourself to follow up with each TD and work with them to complete the spreadsheet. You will back check each individuals division and NEFA number is correct. That way once you are done doing all the follow up legwork, Dave will just need to put the sheet into the Database?

Would that help you Dave McHale?

[Brad Ayotte]

just out of curiousity, are there board meetings or member meetings that happen however often? with all the thread communication, maybe a roomful of people that say they may want to be a part of this building and bettering of an organization can make face time with the people that do run it.. i am not saying that is the only way but anyone can log on from a far, but as an idea have regional meetings with agendas.. i am no expert by any means but it would be something that i would be interested in as i would like to be a contributing mind to this organization.. i defer to the current and past leaders of NEFA for advice on how i can better US

[Titan Bariloni]

Send Dave McHale an IM and tell him you will be his personal assistant. You will take it upon yourself to follow up with each TD and work with them to complete the spreadsheet. You will back check each individuals division and NEFA number is correct. That way once you are done doing all the follow up legwork, Dave will just need to put the sheet into the Database?

this...has been talked about..has anyone done it..?

if so then its on Dave to take the help...he refuses to work with me..so someone that he likes maybe they can figure a system out

I know of the issue..what can nefa do to fix it..so we are not tied to some private system

Ccow..not a bad idea at all

Gary...we all know what nefa does...as far as what it has to offer/attract new members....kinda weak beside series..and didn't mean to go nuts just think sometimes new members are mistaken for not wanting to help and just gripe..this is not the case...people wanna help..they are not allowed or not followed through on by nefa..then if ya do on your own..your called "rogue"...or people say nefa is not the e3nd of the DG world do it yourself...kinda catch 22 all the time and a bunch of BS

I have many issues I can't get done w/o some BS from BOD members..so for now I have put them aside///like a logo next top nefa dubz events on schedule by logo I mean 3 letters NDS

Brad..it has been done before..and then talked about...I suggested a skype setup for BOD to meet once a month...guess they don't use the free tools available..

my suggestion when people offer to help take it...


blah blah I will revisit this BS in the winter..for now its the best time of the year...not gonna waste it by going over the same BS

[Rob Tatro]

Checking in here for the first time in a while ... I'll see if I can shed a little bit of light and hopefully that will answer some questions that some of you have brought up here.

Firstly, Dave McHale's role in this organization has been/is enormous and I'll tell you that he and Gary laid the groundwork early on in planning this system so that it would be easier for updates to happen. This is the case when, as Gary said earlier, TD's fill out the spreadsheets accurately. Unfortunately, we are dealing with human error and although it's easier now than it was when Josh handled the point series, it does take some time and energy to go through the checks and balances. We've asked for the system to be set up so that we have pre-set scheduled updates so that the membership knows that on such and such a day, the standings will be updated. Hopefully, we'll be able to get this to come to fruition.

That all being said, Dave and I went back and forth on some emails in late July and Dave let me know that he was going to begin working with a 'potential' volunteer who may be able to help him with the database. He said that it would take some time to see if it could/would work out so that's what I've given him - the time to work on that. I know that's not what some of you want to hear but the situation is complex and needs to be handled correctly and accurately.

For the past year, NEFA has been dealing with a very large issue that is not only affecting us as an organization negatively but is also affecting some of our dearest members personally as well and that has not been fun at all. It is not something I signed up for nor is it how I wanted to spend my time as NEFA president but it's the hand I was dealt and I'm trying to see it through. Unfortunately, it has really taken all of my focus away from all of the good things many of you are talking about now and that's the worst part of it all for me. When it's all said and done, I know that I'll be able to elaborate further but for now I can't for legal reasons and that's really as far as I can take that. I'm at peace knowing that we are doing our best looking out for NEFA and it's interests long term. In the interim, perhaps we can do a little better working on some of the day to day stuff ... it's been a difficult juggling act that's for sure.

[Brad Ayotte]

we have a BOD with state reps.. how do those reps get across the info of the states, that they represent, to the people or the BOD? it seems like a whole political senario that i dont usually get involved with at most levels... but i am interested in growing the sport here with (due to their experience) NEFA's backing if that is the way it needs to get done..

the website seems to be the big discussion now, which needs a lot of work.. with research and some money, it seems that these things could get done.. regardless of who does the contacting.. they just need to be sent to the BOD to get it finalized

again, i am new to the entire process of running an organization this large.. but people seem to be bringing up legitimite questions..

[Rob Tatro]

We have a BOD thread that we try and use for discussions but to be honest, there are really only a handful of us who use the area at all. I'd love to see our state reps become more involved and begin to take some of the work off of our hands, deal with local issues and bring them higher if need be but then again, I haven't done my part in letting them know how they can help. I just haven't had the time for it but I know, nobody wants to hear about that - it's the truth though.

[Kyle Stevens]

So again...what happens if something happens to Dave????

Gary..you are an obstructionist wind bag. Keep crapping on people that want to see improvements...thats a sure fire way to get things done.

Brad...the last minutes posted from the BOD were August of last year.

[Steven Dakai]

Just a thought...

What if NEFA had online signup/registration here at NEFA.com? All points events could be required to use this type of registration for the events in the series.
After the event the TD could input the scores and a report could be created that reflected the points earned. That report could be made part of a larger database that would tabulate points for the season. The TD would be responsible for his/her event getting inputted. If a TD is tardy, he/she doesnt get a points event again.People complain to the TD,not DanO!
The online sign up could also charge a fee for non NEFA members who sign up. That would be a "member benefit" that would also generate a revenue stream that would help offset the costs of the new service.
The comment by DanO that this is run by people,not machines got me thinking. It should be.

Smarmy and sarcastic responses may now begin.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

So again...what happens if something happens to Dave????

I'm not sure exactly what you want for an answer here. Rob's post says that he and Dave are working on a second volunteer for the job. Is there something more we need to to do specifically?

That all being said, Dave and I went back and forth on some emails in late July and Dave let me know that he was going to begin working with a 'potential' volunteer who may be able to help him with the database. He said that it would take some time to see if it could/would work out so that's what I've given him - the time to work on that. I know that's not what some of you want to hear but the situation is complex and needs to be handled correctly and accurately.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Just a thought...

What if NEFA had online signup/registration here at NEFA.com? All points events could be required to use this type of registration for the events in the series.
After the event the TD could input the scores and a report could be created that reflected the points earned. That report could be made part of a larger database that would tabulate points for the season. The TD would be responsible for his/her event getting inputted. If a TD is tardy, he/she doesnt get a points event again.People complain to the TD,not DanO!
The online sign up could also charge a fee for non NEFA members who sign up. That would be a "member benefit" that would also generate a revenue stream that would help offset the costs of the new service.
The comment by DanO that this is run by people,not machines got me thinking. It should be.

Smarmy and sarcastic responses may now begin.

You mean like the PDGA has? Their pre reg system doesn't compile the names on the same spreadsheet that it used for submitting scores/results.

Most all online registration systems are connected to a bank. The cheapest way i've seen to make this happen is how we do it for all the DisCap events.
A Paypal account is attached to a bank account.
PayPal hits us for $2 per transaction.
A volunteer has to be REALLY diligent and look over this account daily to see who has signed up for which tournament and forward this info to the proper TDs. We've had 2-3 NEFA tournaments on the same weekend SEVERAL times this year and the amount of transactions to sift thru would be pretty signifigant and I'm thinking there are very few people to volunteer for this job. IMO, it would take 2-3 people to get it done right.

I like the idea, Steve......... it's just a bunch of behind the scenes work that would take more hands to do. Looking back at the past few years of elections, there hasn't been a mad rush of candidates stepping up.

[Steven Dakai]

No, not like that. No paypal,no humans. I thought you were a technology guy? It's actually a simple thing to do . And it would solve the human problem. Did you see Marshall street,or borellis site? Good models. Let's not copy a bad one.

That being said,good luck with the points thing.