New England DGC Regional Qualifiers

[Craig Cutler]

Josh you bring up some good points that are actively being discussed. Any positive suggestions would help.

The NEDGC idea was formed late last year. A bunch of states were actively discussing completely abandoning NEFA. We had and have most TD's on board with forming a seperate series and a Championships. NEFA would have been reduced to a Massachusetts club. Greg, Lick, and Jeff W basically saved NEFA's affilaition with these states and events. The people involved are doing there best to see NEFA survive and thrive.

[Bill Bertera]

I think we all like the NEDG Championship idea, but now that the qualifiers have been announced, it just seems like another mini-point series with finals. I don't see any distinction between the two, other than a smaller subset of qualifiers.

I was hoping for more inspired qualifying options. Like, make 50% of the spots points series like you've done, but then pick a handful of tournaments, and a NEDG spot goes to the winner of each division? Or what about, highest average finisher in the Dam series gets a spot? Or take the Pye Brook & Amesbury tournament weekend, the best combined score for all 4 rounds gets a spot? Same thing for Marshall Street tournaments? Or highest rated PDGA round in ANY state tournament gets a spot?

[Drew Smith]

The NEDGC is not the Nefa Points Finals.

But it's replacing it, right? So same thing.

I like the idea and the effort, but it is a change in philosophy. The intent of the NEFA points with a "finals" is to give incentive for members to attend NEFA sanctioned events. TDs had incentive to be NEFA sanctioned in an effort to attract players. NEFA members now have less incentive to attend NEFA points events that are not NEDGC qualifiers.

Growing pains!

[Craig Cutler]

petition your state rep to make all nefa events in your region part of the qualification series. problem solved. 90% of our nefa events are qualifiers.

[Bill Bertera]

petition your state rep to make all nefa events in your region part of the qualification series. problem solved. 90% of our nefa events are qualifiers.

but then how is that any different than the NEFA Points series as we knew it last year?

[Matt DeAngelis]

petition your state rep to make all nefa events in your region part of the qualification series. problem solved. 90% of our nefa events are qualifiers.

but then how is that any different than the NEFA Points series as we knew it last year?

Each region is sending a certain number of players to compete.

[Craig Cutler]

The major difference is that invite process is regionalized. Players from non MA states now have a chance of qualifying and competing in finals. Each region has a set amount of invites. Mass has 28 AM spots and 28 PRO spots. How Mass determines how players qualify is up your State rep.

[Greg Wintrob]

$250 added fundraising from each region. Easier for people to qualify, min events is lower. Invites will better represent all of NE.

[Kenji Cline]

Curiosity question here. How are regions allowing non nefa events to be NEDGC qualifiers? I thought the idea of NEDGC was to bring life back to nefa. It's not going to be mandated that qualifying event be nefa sanctioned?

[Greg Wintrob]

Some regions have their own series in place. We gave each region latitude to use those if they wanted.

We want to be inclusive not exclusive.

CT/RI will now be using all NEFA events in our region with best of 3 to qualify for New England DGC.

[Chris Young]

Nick, the GMPS is the Green Mtn Points Series that the Green Mtn Disc Golf Club runs....its a ton of fun, come join us!!

Check out gmdgc.com.

[Josh Connell]

The major difference is that invite process is regionalized. Players from non MA states now have a chance of qualifying and competing in finals. Each region has a set amount of invites. Mass has 28 AM spots and 28 PRO spots. How Mass determines how players qualify is up your State rep.

The bolded statement implies that players from outside of MA couldn't qualify for finals before, which is patently false. I don't think we should be confusing "didn't qualify" and "can't/couldn't qualify". Maine players, for example, didn't qualify for Finals not because of the quantity of MA players who did, but because a) there weren't nearly enough qualifying tournaments in state and b) they just didn't care about qualifying. I'm not sure what limiting MA invites or reserving X number of spots for various regions is going to do to incentivize players to want to go to this tournament if they didn't before.

I think the concept of the NEDGC is a good one. I'm not sure that the existing NEFA Points Series and its finals needed to be cannibalized to make it a reality, though. The idea is for there to be a "Tournament of Champions" of sorts, bringing together the best players from each corner of NEFA. If the trend was that a bunch of regions were going to create regional series (or maintain/focus on existing ones), why not follow that trail? Then take those regional series and their respective finals or standings, and from those take the best X players from each to participate in the NEDGC.

That would have left the NEFA Series intact, complete with its Finals. Or alternatively, completely abandoning the NEFA Series as we knew it and adopting the regional idea whole hog would have been a reasonable tack. As it currently stands though, it's a confused mix of the two concepts. And I think what adds to the confusion is that it is now March, we've had NEFA Points events and non-NEFA Points NEDGC qualifier events, and there are a ton of details for both the series and the NEDGC that are still not nailed down.

[Arty Graustein]

CT/RI will now be using all NEFA events in our region with best of 3 to qualify for New England DGC.

I think MA should follow suit (of course using best of 4). Seriously Trenton, how can you rule out long standing events like Pyramids, Amesbury Pines, Maple Hill and Borderland? NEFA tournaments in general owe a lot to these longstanding events and yet somehow they aren't even being considered as qualifier to what is to be the premier event in all of New England. Where's the respect? Devens sold out in 72 hours. Again, no respect. Read Josh's post above as it makes lots of sense (as do pretty much all of Josh's posts). Why can't the NEDGC committee just make an executive decision on this one? As Josh wrote it is March. It's a bit on the late side to start a petition. You will still be able to find the cream of crop using the NEFA points series standings for your region.

[Craig Cutler]

Arty, agreed. work is being done. Josh, "cannibalized" is not the right word. It implies negativity in our actions. It's simple to me, If you are a part of something that is stagnating and not reaching it's potential. try changing it and think bigger. This is the first year, if it "fails", then we can go back to the old way. The old way, just like it was 10 years ago, and is every year. Just another event at the end of the year.

[Josh Connell]

Arty, agreed. work is being done. Josh, "cannibalized" is not the right word. It implies negativity in our actions. It's simple to me, If you are a part of something that is stagnating and not reaching it's potential. try changing it and think bigger. This is the first year, if it "fails", then we can go back to the old way. The old way, just like it was 10 years ago, and is every year. Just another event at the end of the year.

It wasn't meant to imply negativity, but I do think it's an apt description of what has happened. Merriam-Webster defines "cannibalize" thusly:

transitive verb
1
a : to take salvageable parts from (as a disabled machine) for use in building or repairing another machine
b : to make use of (a part taken from one thing) in building, repairing, or creating something else

NEFA has taken a part of the old series away (NEFA Finals) to create something new (NEDGC), and is using parts of but not the whole series in combination with non-series events to create a whole new qualifying process for the NEFA Finals replacement. So far, it seems it is leading to a lot of confusion.

[Matt DeAngelis]

A lot of the confusion stems from it being new and different than what people have known. The NEFA tournament season doesn't really ramp up until spring, which is why more people are "tuning in" and asking questions. A lot of questions are answered in other threads or discussions.

[Josh Connell]

A lot of the confusion stems from it being new and different than what people have known. The NEFA tournament season doesn't really ramp up until spring, which is why more people are "tuning in" and asking questions. A lot of questions are answered in other threads or discussions.

I don't think when the season ramps up has anything to do with the confusion Luke had regarding Devens and whether or not it would be an NEDGC qualifier for MA. Or with the fact that Greggor's list of qualifiers in the first post has a blank under Maine, four events for NH/VT (complete list or no?), and has had the CT/RI list change in the last 6 hours. And people "in the know" on this very thread are saying that there some things still being discussed, which implies that some decisions remain either unmade or open to potential change.

There was a time when these kind of decisions about details of the series were nailed down by Thanksgiving, the bulk of the series schedule was in place by New Years, and people could start planning their entire years worth of tournaments by Groundhog Day. Now it's March 4 and there are still details that are up in the air. That it is new and unfamiliar is an excuse, not a reason for confusion.

[Craig Cutler]

In our defense, we started the discussions in early December. In our private group, we have been begging the state reps to respond well in advance.

[Matt DeAngelis]

A lot of the confusion stems from it being new and different than what people have known. The NEFA tournament season doesn't really ramp up until spring, which is why more people are "tuning in" and asking questions. A lot of questions are answered in other threads or discussions.

I don't think when the season ramps up has anything to do with the confusion Luke had regarding Devens and whether or not it would be an NEDGC qualifier for MA. Or with the fact that Greggor's list of qualifiers in the first post has a blank under Maine, four events for NH/VT (complete list or no?), and has had the CT/RI list change in the last 6 hours. And people "in the know" on this very thread are saying that there some things still being discussed, which implies that some decisions remain either unmade or open to potential change.

There was a time when these kind of decisions about details of the series were nailed down by Thanksgiving, the bulk of the series schedule was in place by New Years, and people could start planning their entire years worth of tournaments by Groundhog Day. Now it's March 4 and there are still details that are up in the air. That it is new and unfamiliar is an excuse, not a reason for confusion.

Was that back when there were 20 tournaments? Serious question, I don't think I was involved with tournament disc golf when it was like that. It is true that some things are still being worked out, but the bulk of the work has been done. Members should rely on their elected state rep for assistance and questions. That's why they were elected. Those are the people responsible for setting qualifiers and minimums, etc.

[Josh Connell]

Was that back when there were 20 tournaments? Serious question, I don't think I was involved with tournament disc golf when it was like that. It is true that some things are still being worked out, but the bulk of the work has been done. Members should rely on their elected state rep for assistance and questions. That's why they were elected. Those are the people responsible for setting qualifiers and minimums, etc.

It wasn't that long ago. Google found the 2010 NEFA Points Charter stored on the NEFA site here. Some relevant points from the scheduling section of the document.

• The preliminary/initial schedule as well as the official schedule will include all events in our region that are sent to the Schedule Coordinators after November 1. This includes events seeking NEFA Points status and tournaments that are not part of the NEFA Points Series. Note that all events that are not NEFA Points Series events do not have any protection or exclusivity under this Charter.
...
• All TDs are encouraged to submit their date requests in November and December.
• State Coordinators are encouraged to select their Double Points event during November or December.
• December 31 will be the last day for events to secure their date within the first official schedule and will be the last day for states to ensure a double point’s event for their state.
• On or about January 7, an official schedule will be posted.
• NEFA tournaments scheduled after December 31 must fit within the existing schedule and abide by the rules for single and double points events.

I count 40 NEFA events on the schedule in 2010, after 42 events on the 2009 schedule and a similar timeline in the 2009 charter.

For some reason, after 2010, that scheduling timeline in the charter went away and things gradually migrated into the catch-as-catch-can timetable we have now.

[Troy Dietrich]

I thought the idea behind the qualifiers was at least partially to have a handful of premier events that would bring out the best players. Not have every single tournament be a qualifier. Not so unlike what used to be the 2x events. Those always filled quickly, and they attracted the people that could only play in a handful of tournaments each year.

If it were me, I'd have stuck to that game plan and significantly increased the fee for those events using the added cash for the NEDGC tournament. You'd get less locals and increase the likelyhood of bringing in more talent....people that are playing TO qualify.

[Trent Solomon]

CT/RI will now be using all NEFA events in our region with best of 3 to qualify for New England DGC.

I think MA should follow suit (of course using best of 4). Seriously Trenton, how can you rule out long standing events like Pyramids, Amesbury Pines, Maple Hill and Borderland? It wasnt easy and I will explain in a post later tonight NEFA tournaments in general owe a lot to these longstanding events and yet somehow they aren't even being considered as qualifier to what is to be the premier event in all of New England. Where's the respect? There is plenty of respect to the events. The NEDGC is going to be the best of the best. The more events you have that are able to be used as qualifiers the more watered down it becomes and favors the person that can go play every weekend. THis way it allows someone that can only play in a few events a much better chance. Devens sold out in 72 hours. Again, no respect. Read Josh's post above as it makes lots of sense (as do pretty much all of Josh's posts). Why can't the NEDGC committee just make an executive decision on this one? As Josh wrote it is March. It's a bit on the late side to start a petition. You will still be able to find the cream of crop using the NEFA points series standings for your region.IN a smaller region sure, but not in MA. there are too many events.

See above in red

[Michael Nugent]

@ Nyles, All NEFA divisions will be offered at NEDGC events.

do you have to split these invites up evenly between the divisions?

Also if a state cannot fill up there alotted amount of players how will it be decided to fill up the open spots?

[Greg Wintrob]

Allocation of invites in a region is up to the Regional Rep with approval by the committee.

Unused spots will be allocated by the committee.

Zoro and I need will finalize CT/RI tonight... but here's the thought.
Here are the divisions.
The Pro side:17
Pro open
Masters
Grandmasters
Women's Pro

Am side:17
Am1
Am2
Rec
Junior
Adv masters
Adv grand
Adv women
Int women

We might not have anyone qualify in certain divisions. It will come down to using perectages to determine the invites with in the region. The same way we determined invites per region.

Must be a NEFA member to qualify.

[Bill Bertera]

It will come down to using perectages to determine the invites with in the region. The same way we determined invites per region.

I've heard this stated a couple times, yet I thought someone said (and I could be wrong), that Maine had 2 NEFA members last year. What percentages were used to determine the invites per region?

[Josh Connell]

I've heard this stated a couple times, yet I thought someone said (and I could be wrong), that Maine had 2 NEFA members last year. What percentages were used to determine the invites per region?

Maine definitely had more than 2 members last year. We didn't have anyone qualify for finals, but I know I found a handful of Mainers who did play some points events as members (such that they got points and were listed in the standings).

We only had two NEFA Points tournaments, maybe that's where you got the number.

[Bill Bertera]

[
Maine definitely had more than 2 members last year. We didn't have anyone qualify for finals, but I know I found a handful of Mainers who did play some points events as members (such that they got points and were listed in the standings).

We only had two NEFA Points tournaments, maybe that's where you got the number.

You're right, sorry, this is the quote (from you) that I mis-remembered:

Last year Maine only had two NEFA Points tournaments, and zero players who qualified for finals

I still wonder what percentage showed that Maine (and other regions, I just find Maine the hardest to believe) had slightly more than half the NEFA members as Mass though. (15 finals spots for Maine to 28 for MA)

[Greg Wintrob]

We used last years membership numbers.

[Josh Connell]

I still wonder what percentage showed that Maine (and other regions, I just find Maine the hardest to believe) had slightly more than half the NEFA members as Mass though. (15 finals spots for Maine to 28 for MA)

I'm not involved nor do I know what is/was involved in the decision making, but I think it's obvious they did not use membership percentages in deciding each region's allotment of NEDGC spots. It looks like they decided 15 was the minimum for each (5x15=75) then dispersed the remaining 15 spots to the two biggest regions, membership-wise (MA and CT/RI).

It's probably a compromise between equal numbers for all regions and strict membership ratios. By membership, the smallest region would probably not get enough NEDGC spots to generate enough interest to grow membership, which is the purported goal of the whole thing.

[Craig Cutler]

Josh is correct.

2012:

CT = 76
MA = 260
ME = 27
NH = 41
NJ = 13
NY = 32
RI = 14
VT = 22
Oregon = 2
Total = 487

80% of the 2012 Final participants and Points series Winners were from Mass. The proposed 2013 allocation is an attempt to sustain/grow/save NEFA outside of Mass.