Old guys

[Karl Molitoris]

Jason,

Ya know I like ya, but your...

if you want to play with the big boys, you gotta cough up the same cash they're laying on the table.

...sounds really childish. Like the glass-jawed boxer / street kid who believes they have to put up a big front because - deep down inside - they realize they have the biggest achilles heel in the world and would break if a feather blew in and hit them. Ooooh I'm a big tuff guy; I play for money! I'm a PRO. BFD .
I did "OK" at the Yetter this year - playing PRO GM - turning down the $$ (of course), so Big Dog could make more money for the club, etc. Money puts food in your mouth. DG provides mental and physical stimulation. And I can only eat so much!

OK, now that I've gotten THAT off my chest, the rest of your post is good!

Your...

I'm starting to believe we shouldn't make tournaments -- really fun ones -- too much about winning other people's money.

...is spot on. FUN is definately needed (more) in dg. Ya work for ya money, ya play dg for ya fun. Well that, and doing neat things with members of the opposite gender !

Karl
Ps: When are we going on that bike ride?

[Karl Molitoris]

Titan,

It may be true that a bunch of oldsters WOULD come out of the woodwork if there were divisions (for them), but I still think there is need to "organize" these "meetings of the O.F.s" because their schedules probably aren't as flexible (neither are their bodies) as younger players schedules. We need to know - in advance - that there WILL be O.F.s "in attendence" and thus we'll plan also to be there.

I say this so as NOT to add TOO many new divisions.

We all know that presently we have:
1. "Pros" and Amateurs
2. Women and Men
3. some assortment of either
a. age ranges
b. ratings ranges

With an average of 72 players in a tournament (I personally can NEVER advocate 5-somes, so won't consider 90), that there is a "theoretical minimum" of 8 divisions, this means - on average - there are 9 players per division. If this number is too small, something needs to be changed. And that would mean "getting rid of" 1 (or more) of the "split-outs".

Who's up for telling the women they HAVE to play with the men? Didn't think so. OK, women stay.
Who's up for FORCING Ams to play with the gambl..er, uh, Pros? Ditto (although my lower entry fees for Ams in the same divisions as the Pros does work here ).
Who's up for setting up a GOOD (sorry CK, not yours) rating / handicap system? OK, treading on choppy waters here - sorry.
Who's up for saying "no age breaks"? This would LOSE players, not encourage them to play! NG.

SOOOOOOOOO,

We're down to either:
1. Keeping it "just like it is"
2. Tweaking it "just a little" (and it really won't make a hill of beans difference...if it's truly "a little")
3. Setting up a hcp or rating system
4. Having less players in more divisions

Did I miss any options here?


Karl

And some days, I feel like the trip with Noah was just yesterday !

[Jason Southwick]

Well that, and doing neat things with members of the opposite gender !

Do you mean line dancing? I've heard that's fun.

[Al Rosa]

I agree...from 28 even to 30 I have noticed some real changes in my body

Its called puberty Titan. (sorry had to)

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I agree...from 28 even to 30 I have noticed some real changes in my body

Its called puberty Titan. (sorry had to)

Well played, Al

[Blaze Konefal]

As a TD, I find it very frustrating to have to offer certain divisions, make trophies for them "$", and then no one shows up. I now have a very impressive trophy case as a result!. If there are enough people to populate another mandatory division, great! Maybe a division is only offered if 3 or more people sign up for it 5 days before the event so the TD can plan for trophies and prizes.

[Titan Bariloni]

I agree...from 28 even to 30 I have noticed some real changes in my body

Its called puberty Titan. (sorry had to)

Well played, Al

yes....very well played

kinda served it though

[Steve Walker]

Just saw this thread.....

I would like to see (in my case) Senior Grandmaster offered, but not as a charity level. At last year's West Thompson Ice Bowl, they kindly offered me my own division for SGM, but I declined. I usually play AM2, and, even though I don't have a long drive, I'm uncomfortable playing REC - I've been playing for 10 years or so, so AM2 is good. There are some benefits, for example I frequently get to play with a delightful bevy of young ladies in the second round as I am last in AM2!

So, the idea that, if there is a minimum of 3 (or maybe 4), registered beforehand, then we probably have a workable system, and I would be happy to sign up!

I play for the fun of it, for the curious and fascinating people I meet, for the exercise. I also add my own goals, such as throw my age or better, play two rounds in the snow, have a better second round than first. There are related challenges that usually involve beer and whisk(e)y. Where else is all this possible?

SteveW

[Phil Kennedy]

Ditto Steve's post.

I've stopped even bothering to look at tournament announcements and flyers because an SGM division is never offered. With age and health issues in total control of my game, I simply can't compete in lower aged-based divisions. If you can't compete at a tournament (I'm not even talking about money)...that's an exercise in frustration...why bother. I might as well save the gas, stay close to home and play casually for fun with friends.

Because a bunch of GMs will be "growing up" in the not-too-distant future, I offer three forward-thinking suggestions:

1. Have an SGM division at each state's State Champion tournament. If that were a NEFA-guaranteed policy, chances are more of us would plan ahead to attend.

2. Start a communication network for SGMs so that they can work together on who would like to go to what events. With enough pre-planning a bloc of players might encourage additional TDs to offer the division. A dedicated NEFA thread would be a good starting point.

3. To attract more players keep SGM an AM division.

[Karl Molitoris]

Phil,

While I won't be joining you guys until 2015, all 3 of your ideas not only make sense but seem to be rather easy (labor non-intensive) to accomplish!

1. Most NEFA-involved states have a "state championship-type tournament" (or at least 1 that "seems" to be a biggie in that state), whether it be the 2X or not...and that tournament could be a de facto SGM-division'd tournament. Y'all would just probably have to have it 'carved in stone' in the charter or something like that.

2. A MB thread seems really easy to pull off - and no reason why not (that I can see...).

3. The "keep the SGM an AM division" seems fine (at least to me) but without a AM GM division, there is no where to 'graduate from' - to GET to the AM SGM. This may or may not pose a problem.


This, IMO, is just 1 of the manifestations of NEFA - right now - being a hodge-podge of "split outs" (segregations) of divisions. Not perfect, not terrible, just is. We have gender split outs, age split outs, status (Pro / AM) split outs, and ability split outs...and an all / over encompassing premise of NOT following the PDGA set up precisely (whether or not that would really help is certainly debatable...).

If we wish to continue "as is" (see previous paragraph), fine, then another division probably won't hurt - especially as it seems to draw from a VERY large split out (Int) primarily. If we do NOT wish to continue "as is", someone has to come up with "a plan" [quoting The Black Adder - "I have a cunning plaaaan!"].

Karl

[Phil Kennedy]

While I won't be joining you guys until 2015...

Don't worry, Carl...by then I'll be plotting my campaign for an AM Legends division inNEFAland!

Phil
1984 New England Disc Golf Champion at age 37 (by 3 strokes over NEFA founder Ed "Stick" Dissosway)

[Rob Walker]

I can't believe that Karl quoted the Black Adder.

This is a good idea. I kept trying to research how to figure out what division my dad should play in and a lot of what I found was based on score. Like he was saying in an earlier post, he wouldn't feel right playing in a division with people who may not know all the rules and ediquette. Here in New England, we tend to not have flat open courses (Devens for example). Just walking the course is tougher as the years go by, or so I've heard. It does seem like there are several people who won't play in tournaments that would qualify for SGM because they don't easily fit in to the current divisions.

[Titan Bariloni]

This is the solution I can see best fits NEFA right now...

I hope to have this implemented soon

Adv GM division

3 events to qualify for Finals

Td only has to offer division if 2 or more players are signed up

I know this division is needed...and I would like to see how it plays out over a year....

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I had FOUR Adv GMs in the Throwdown, none were from NEFA. So the players are out there, and I'll be offering the division at all DisCap events.

[Titan Bariloni]

I think all courses have their 3-8 old guys roaming around...

also if ya reads Phils post..how can NEFA turns its back to these players...! They are legends and every event one of these guys attend will only add to the FUN..!

Its also nice chatting with these guys..they have so much to tell..!

not to mention any old guys that are new to DG/Nefa and would like to play

[Steve Walker]

Starting to look good - great to see all the support for a geriatric division. Keeping it AM makes sense to me.

Should we start a thread as Phil suggested - I for one being retired can play more readily in the week, happy to meet new folk. The thread could be used to coordinate tournament as well as casual play for the Elders amongst us! This would also be a good foundation for the Legends starting in 2013!

SteveW

[Titan Bariloni]

Yes a thread for you old guys or legends is a great idea..then you can all talk and see who will be attending what...

fingers crossed guys..I am trying to get this division added for 2011..!

[Erik Siersdale]

My dad played the two tournaments at borderland this year and as such qualified for the legends division at am worlds in 2011. His only complaint is that he is 16 years older than the next oldest golfer as he is currently 70, so any older divisions would probably lock him in quickly.

[Titan Bariloni]

Yes OBV...Adv GM would then lump 50-100 plus....but at least we will have a start...the legends division in Nefa is years away....

this way at least any older players can converge in an AM division of somewhat similar age/ability

give newer players to DG that are older a chance to pop the cherry without having to play REC with such a diverse age range...

We may have to add an Ambulance MUST be present at all NEFA events in Charter..... ...and just so ya know guys, being a member of the AARP will not get you a discounted NEFA membership fee....

Its fun picking on old people... ..and they can't run very fast to beat ya up

[Josh Rappeport]

Its fun picking on old people... ..and they can't run very fast to beat ya up

Yeah, but most of them can throw a disc further than you...

[Phil Kennedy]

..and they can't run very fast to beat ya up

Once upon a time I used to run a 10.2 in the 100 yds. and may have lost a second or two by now, but I wouldn't feel too smug if I were you!

(Of course, I'd permanently pull every sinew in my body in the pursuit!)

Phil
4th in Discathon, 1985 World Senior Championships

[Rob Walker]

Word on the street is that Erik's dad is challenging my dad to some golf. Should we pick the course based on the close proximity of quality health care? Or are there any disc golfing EMTs that can play in a foursome behind us?

[Titan Bariloni]

..and they can't run very fast to beat ya up

Once upon a time I used to run a 10.2 in the 100 yds. and may have lost a second or two by now, but I wouldn't feel too smug if I were you!

(Of course, I'd permanently pull every sinew in my body in the pursuit!)

Phil
4th in Discathon, 1985 World Senior Championships

come on I can't believe Nefa is gonna let guys as as this fade off...I demand stories from old guys at Nefa Events...

Is there some sorta signal to round you guys up...for this cause..morris code..? smoke..?that old school batman light..?

I am gonna have a piece of paper at all my Nefa events I attend this year and any one current can sign it in support of the old guys..maybe the BOD will be moved when all their members sign IT..!

God I hope that only 3 people don't sign it.....

[Karl Molitoris]

Word on the street is that Erik's dad is challenging my dad to some golf. Should we pick the course based on the close proximity of quality health care? Or are there any disc golfing EMTs that can play in a foursome behind us?

My brother's a paramedic...and he plays disc golf !

Karl

[Josh Rappeport]

Word on the street is that Erik's dad is challenging my dad to some golf. Should we pick the course based on the close proximity of quality health care? Or are there any disc golfing EMTs that can play in a foursome behind us?

My services are available... but not cheap

[Phil Kennedy]

...I demand stories from old guys at Nefa Events...

Gee...I hate to disappoint, but...unfortunately most of my stories are pre-NEFA (<1988)

[Phil Kennedy]

Should we pick the course based on the close proximity of quality health care?

Rob...consider picking a course that's open enough for a medevac chopper to land.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Is there some sorta signal to round you guys up...for this cause..morris code..? smoke..?that old school batman light..?

It's Morse code and the Bat Signal you friggin toddler.

[Steve Walker]

_ ---- -_ _ A -- --- A -_ A __- ___ ___ _-- A -- _-- - -_ A -- A ---- - -_ -_- A -_ A -_-- ___ _ A ___ --_- A _--- - - -__- --- A -- _- A __ _-__ A - -_ -_- --- A -_ _- _-__ -__ -_ _-__

Clue: Translatum

SteveW

Also, I plan to be at the following ice-bowls, and encourage enough SGM's to join me so we have a division:

Flatrock 8th Jan
Devens 5th Feb
Tully 26th Feb

[Titan Bariloni]

no matter my position with NEFA..I know an AM old guys field needs to happen

I will still be bringing that petition with me to Events....

This is gonna go down no matter who the Chair is..!

Our leaders can't deny the people of what they WANT..!