RI NEFA 2x Event

[Matt DeAngelis]

I don't want this to come off as a bash thread now. That's not what it's about. It is a simple difference of opinion on what makes a good, fun, competitively fair event for people to participate in. I still think that I wouldn't have played this sport if it weren't for TM Dyer. I grew up minutes from the park and stumbled upon it with some friends back in '99, throwing ultimate lids around. TM has continued to put time, money, and effort into the Ninigret Park course and deserves some props for that. I can understand his desire to have things just right and in his vision for people to play. Hopefully he can have a successful Frostbite tournament this winter and the parks department can see the potential. I will be back in touch with the town to run the 2x event in 2011. Dueces.

[T.M.DYER]

“Not going to happen!

So this is how all of this went down:

1. I contact the town to ask if a tournament could take place.”


“ June 23,2010
Hello Jay,

I have been a long time supporter of the Ninigret Park disc golf course and am thrilled to see that the course now has 17 baskets and is almost fully playable! I am now a resident of MA, but was a board member of the organization that donated the 9 baskets that were recently installed. I grew up right down the road from the park, in Green Hill, and still visit that area often. I am amazed to see the amount of people that play the course now compared to just a few years ago.

The reason why I am contacting you now is to find out what it would take to get a disc golf tournament approved to run at the course. I have experience directing successful tournaments at several other locations and would love to have one at Ninigret. There is a New England point series that sanctions tournaments all over New England, and unfortunately, there hasn't been one of these events in RI in over 10 years! That is far too long and should be changed!

Any tournament that I run has a full insurance policy provided by the PDGA, with up to $1,000,000 of coverage. The park, town, etc can all be included in the policy. What else is needed for a tournament to take place at Ninigret (permits, rules, etc)? I would like to run this event sometime in September, but would be flexible for other dates. Please let me know if this is feasible and what else I need to do to get this to happen.

Thanks,
Matthew DeAngelis
401-207-9838 “


“2. They send an enthusiastic response back to me that they would love it. They included TM Dyer on that email.”

“ Dear Mathew:

I am pleased at the level of interest in the sport of disk golf and I intend to introduce the game to my daughters soon. I love golf and I love to work with the Frisbee, so disk golf seems like a natural fit. We have a very dedicated individual (Tim Dyer) that assists in all elements of what we do at the disk golf course as he has sunk a considerable amount of time and effort and money into the development of the course. I will include him in on this email as we recently walked the course together and I received an education as to the various elements of the game, the nuances of this particular course etc. I foresee there being an event at the course in the near future. The back nine has only been open for a period of thirty days and we are seeing some changes being made to the course that are being made by people that feel a need to make the course different. I am very saddened by this behavior as is Tim Dyer, the individual managing this asset for our community. If this doesn’t end we will be forced to close the back nine for a while. We have people placing signage on the course, branches being removed, whole trees being chain sawed down to make the course fit a particular style of play. This is unacceptable.

Until this is resolved, we will not be hosting a tournament. I do suspect that we will be able to accommodate an event in September however. I will need to request this of the Parks and Recreation Commission however on July 6th, 2010, so please determine the dates of the event that you would like to host at our facility and I will research this further. How many participants do you expect to attend, the length of the tournament, the costs to the participants, the concession elements will all have to be discussed. What percentage of the gross will be returned to the town for future improvements to the disk golf course?

Best,

Jay Primiano “


“ Hi Jay,
Thank you for the quick reply. Disc golf is such a great sport and I think it's fantastic that you will be introducing it to you children. It is a great game, just like traditional golf, which I also love to play. I wish I made more money so I could play golf more often, but that's where disc golf comes into play!

I have known TM for a number of years, and he was one of the first players that I met when I first started playing over at Ninigret back in 2000. He certainly has put countless number of hours and effort into making the course what it is today. The local players have also donated time and money to support the efforts.

That is unfortunate that the course is being changed by other people, but keep in mind that it is unrealistic to have one person make all decisions about the course. It is far more successful to have a small group that are able to weigh in on the aspects that make up a course. The Borderland Disc Golf club, which I am a board member for, has monthly meetings to go over any changes, damage, etc that will go on at the course. This ensures that competitive elements of the course are kept in check and make sense for all the players.

As for the tournament, I will need to check with the NEFA points committee to see what dates are available. The schedule fills up really quickly and is already packed with other events. The most realistic is 9/4 or 9/5. The event would be one day, two rounds and have a maximum field size of 72. Player entry fees range in price, but a basic structure would be the following:

Pro: $60.00
Pro Masters: $50.00
Pro Women: $45.00
Am 1: $40.00
Am Master: $40.00
Am 2: $35.00
Am Women: $35.00
Int Women: $35.00
Junior: $30.00
Rec: $30.00
Those fees include a $10 non-member fee that would be waived for current PDGA members. We also could apply for a special sanctioning that would waive this fee for all players, but this would need to be approved by the PDGA.

Most tournaments will provide a players package for the the Amateur divisions, which includes a custom tournament stamped disc and other items. Money is generated for the course through these player packages, so approximately $5-$10 of the Am entry fee goes back to the course (to raise money for baskets...so Ninigret can give the 9 back to Borderland!) I would reach out to a local pizza place (maybe famous pizza or kingston pizza) to take lunch orders in the morning while players are checking in.

I am really excited about the prospect of seeing a NEFA tournament at the course where I first learned to play. Please let me know what else is needed and I will be sure to get back to you quickly.

Thanks,
Matt ”



“ Hello Jay,

Well, it doesn't look like that weekend is going to work after all. Can you find out about us holding the event on 9/25 instead? All the other info would remain unchanged. Please let me know ASAP if there is anything else you need from me to get this going. Everyone is really excited about the prospect of a tournament at Ninigret!

Thanks,
Matt “

“ Dear Mathew: 9/25 is an open date for the park regarding a prospective disk golf tournament. You will need to come in, fill out a request form and background information packet. I am pleased that this event may become a mainstay of our offerings here at Ninigret Park although, I will need to request this of our Parks and Recreation Commission at our next meeting on July 6th, 2010.

Jay Primiano ”
“ Hello Jay,

I will be back down in RI for the 4th of July weekend. I will be around on Friday July 2nd and could stop in to fill out all the required information. Where would I need to go to pick up and fill out the forms? I'm sure I will also be playing some disc golf that weekend too if you wanted some instructions (I teach lessons and could offer you some free tips).

Thanks,
Matt “


“3. A few days later I get another email stating that after a walk through with TM, it is not advisable to have the tournament in September. However, if I really wanted to pull the permits and run the show, it could happen.”


“ Dear Matthew:

I spent a few hours walking the course with the Town Administrator along with Tim Dyer as we discussed the condition of the course and its readiness for tournament play. The back nine is approximately 9 months from being complete based upon Tim’s analysis along with our observations yesterday. He has completed a significant portion of what is intended but the course is still not complete. We would like to provide a more complete product for a tournament of this sort but if you intend to rent the facility for this event with the understanding that the facility is not in mint condition, we are amenable to this activity from an administrator’s position. I foresee a need to convince the Recreation Commission of this, perhaps at our next meeting July 6th or at the following meeting in August.

There are some real issues with the back nine and they are as follow:

1. there are no amateur tee boxes. See a need for three alternatives, pro, intermediate and beginner courses as we would want this event to support all segments of the community including children
2. significant poison ivy and bug problems
3. space has only been rough cut once this season
4. limited assistance for the volunteer labor for this project

On the front nine we have one hole that is off limits due to contamination containment issues. Clean up is complete but the sign off from the Federal Government isn’t complete. I foresee this to become official in 2011 summer of.

I foresee that September of 2011 being better timing but if necessary, you could perhaps run an event at the site this year. The front nine is of course in pretty good condition with the exception of hole number three being off limits.

I do ask, what’s the rush?

We need to determine rental rates etc. as these haven’t been established to my knowledge. I would require that even the professional ranks give a portion of their overall registration fees back to the park for future improvements to the Park.

Lots to determine before we move on this though.

Jay “




“ Hello Jay,

It would not be necessary for the course to be in "mint" condition in order to have a tournament. So long as the major elements of the course are in place, which they are. The only thing that would be needed is to have the grass mowed on some of the fairways. There are a lot of local players that are willing to do work on the course, but do not because TM has instructed them that only he is allowed to work on it. Fairways could be mowed. Poison ivy could be killed/removed.

There is no real need to have three sets of tees for the tournament. Most courses in New England only have one set of tees. However, these can be added very easily with a couple of flags to mark the tee box. It has been my experience that the tournaments will attract the more competitive players, with limited participation by the recreational and junior divisions. That's not to say that these players are not important, just that for this type of event, they often are not interested.

As far as the back nine poison ivy and bug problems, those will remain for the foreseeable future. You can't get rid of the bugs and that has always been a part of Ninigret disc golf! The poison ivy is also a staple in Ninigret disc golf, albeit a negative one. It is not imperative to have all of this killed off prior to the event. People would be willing to eradicate the ivy, if granted permission by the town.

The front nine is missing hole 3. A temporary hole would need to be created (possibly at corner of the ball field) to take it's place.

I am in no rush...I have been waiting to run a tournament here for the past 5 years! The opportunity is here to hold a NEFA sanctioned event at a course in RI. That has not happened in the NEFA (regional disc golf club) region for some time. That is really unfortunate.

At the Borderland State Park, the cost to run an event is a $35 permit fee. There was no other fee to use the space. There has also never been a requirement to give money back to the park/course. That responsibility fell to the Borderland Disc Golf Club, which raises money throughout the year and at these events. However, if it is stated in advance that a portion of the entry fee is going back to the course, then people wouldn't have an issue with it.

Hopefully we will be able to work through these concerns and issues in a timely manner so that the proper notification can be given to the players that are interested in the event.


Regards,
Matt “


"4. I was told that it would be discussed at the town parks meeting in July.”

.” I foresee a need to convince the Recreation Commission of this, perhaps at our next meeting July 6th or at the following meeting in August. “
This meeting was cancelled due to lack of quorum and the proposed September NEFA Points Disc Golf Tourney was not on the Agenda…

If you ask to use a facility it might be a good idea to show up at the meeting when they discuss your idea to answer any questions…if they decide to give it their blessing…
It still has to go to the Town Council for approval…at a different meeting…



“5. Ran into TM at the course and he proceeded to scream at me for not bringing this up with him first. “

I am sure that I did NOT Scream at you…if I was screaming at you…your ears would have been bleeding…

I asked you who these other “Local Players” were… who could and would mow the course… between now and your proposed event…I asked why I had not been introduced to these players…You did not even know the names of these alleged “local players”…

The few names that you do know…I am already working with these people…


Over the past Ten years that I have known you and you learned how to play disc golf…
I can count on one hand the number of times you have showed up to help work on the Disc Golf Course at Ninigret Park…

You showed three different times this past winter and spring to help work on the area where the pheasant farm used to be…I do not remember a big “rally of troops” that you brought along with you…

Matt DeAngelis Jan 26,2010 post from NEFA Thread
“ So who else is interested in doing a little work this weekend? I am down for both Saturday and Sunday. TM said something about doing work on hole 8 to remove the metal etc from the hole on Saturday 1/31/10, but the 31st is Sunday. Anyway, the town said that the back nine needs to be opened all at once, and not one hole at a time.

I'm wondering why the back nine can't be installed, opened and playable, minus hole 8?

If that's the way it is then, I guess hole 8 needs to be cleaned up and ready for a basket to be installed before any of the other holes get installed.

Who will be there Saturday morning for a round of golf, followed by some cleanup? I'll call out all the locals since I will be coming down from an hour 1/2 away to help out.

TM
J Graham
Ryan Girard
Greg Wintrob
Josh Bardon
Facebook Crew
Zimma
Todd Canuel


Who else? With this many people, the work on hole 8 would be done in two hours tops! “



You thought in your post that two hours would finish it off…

I seem to remember it being from 8am til dark that day… very cold…got an awful lot accomplished… it was no where near finished… This was effort on 1/3 of just one of the 18 holes on the disc golf course…



“Guess what TM, the bad course design choices you have made will not make for a fun event. You put up mandatory poles on the course that don't make sense and make bad decisions about where players should tee off from. The main reason why I wanted to run a tournament without you, is so that those mistakes can be ignored and the local players can decide how to best play the course (which is done every day of the week during normal play).”

I have been working within what the Town of Charlestown agreed would be the parameters of what should be done to the Disc Golf Course…inside Ninigret Park…

You may want to meet with them in person to explain what you think should be different…If you would like to change what is agreed upon with the Town of Charlestown about the Disc Golf Course…

They are working with me as the “Course Designer” and the “Volunteer Coordinator” to make it all happen… for some reason YOU do not want to work with me…






“6. I contacted the town today and promptly got an email back stating:

We will be conducting a tournament in the midwinter called the Frostbite Tournament and we will entertain a tournament in the Spring, summer or fall of 2011 for a seventeen or perhaps eighteen hole event from your organization. We are still working on the course now. I was out there today doing some sign building for the course to guide patrons around the first nine holes along with dog park signage. We have considerable amounts of cutting and grooming to do on the back nine, fifteen acres. WE have a major mosquito problem out there at the moment.

Jay

Good luck with ALL the work that has to be done...I will not be there to help out anymore, nor will I rally the troops for you.

SO, it looks like the RI 2x NEFA event will have to take place in 2011.


_________________”
Team Borderland




So after just thirty days after your initial contact … you seem to be blaming me for you not being able to run an event at the Disc Golf Course…on Sept. 26,2010…

I do not think that you have given yourself enough real time for the meetings of the various commissions and the town council to even happen much less get yourself on the agendas so that they will discuss the possibility of allowing you to run an event at the Disc Golf Course in Ninigret Park…

[T.M.DYER]

Hey Matt,

I want to run a RI State Overall Championship at Ninigret next Sept 2011...

I want to run some field events like Distance,Accuracy, MTA,Freestyle...

Also want to run a NEFA points Disc Golf competition at this event as well...

I feel that the time to talk with the town about getting permission to do an event like this is now...

That way once we get through the couple of months for meetings to happen... so we can get permission...

There will be ample time to advertise and promote a first class event...

I was reveiwing the NEFA Points criteria...I noticed that the Points finals are tentatively scheduled to be held in RI in 2012...

Maybe we should start working on that now as well...

The most recent conversation that I had with the Parks and Rec Dept include the towns desire to start mowing the Disc Golf Course as part of the normal rotation of mowing throughout the park...

They told me that the town felt that it should probably be mowed every three weeks...during the grass growing season...

Our efforts need to be focused on making a Mower Friendly Tractor Path throughout the Disc Golf Course...

The town is talking about funding the signs and maybe even the cement tee pads throughout the Disc Golf Course...

Some very exciting times for Disc Golf in RI...

I look forward to working with the local player base to bring all of this to fruition...
Thanks,
T.M.DYER

[Matt DeAngelis]

Thanks for posting all the emails.

2. They send an enthusiastic response back to me that they would love it. They included TM Dyer on that email.

Here is a section of that email and of the follow up email that I sent afterwards:

I do suspect that we will be able to accommodate an event in September however. I will need to request this of the Parks and Recreation Commission however on July 6th, 2010, so please determine the dates of the event that you would like to host at our facility and I will research this further. How many participants do you expect to attend, the length of the tournament, the costs to the participants, the concession elements will all have to be discussed. What percentage of the gross will be returned to the town for future improvements to the disk golf course?

Dear Mathew: 9/25 is an open date for the park regarding a prospective disk golf tournament. You will need to come in, fill out a request form and background information packet. I am pleased that this event may become a mainstay of our offerings here at Ninigret Park although, I will need to request this of our Parks and Recreation Commission at our next meeting on July 6th, 2010.

You tell me, does this sound positive? Does this sound like it could happen?

3. A few days later I get another email stating that after a walk through with TM, it is not advisable to have the tournament in September. However, if I really wanted to pull the permits and run the show, it could happen.

Here is that email that I got back. I put some things in BOLD to make it easy for you to find. TM said it will take 9 months to complete the back 9. Do you mean it will take you 9 months to install some stupid 'green monster' plastic fencing on hole 13? Or do you mean it will take you 9 more months to figure out some rediculous OB on hole 11? I would be OK with everything that you did, if you would just listen to the players when they say that these things are BAD IDEAS.

I spent a few hours walking the course with the Town Administrator along with Tim Dyer as we discussed the condition of the course and its readiness for tournament play. [The back nine is approximately 9 months from being complete based upon Tim’s analysis along with our observations yesterday. He has completed a significant portion of what is intended but the course is still not complete. We would like to provide a more complete product for a tournament of this sort but if you intend to rent the facility for this event with the understanding that the facility is not in mint condition, we are amenable to this activity from an administrator’s position. I foresee a need to convince the Recreation Commission of this, perhaps at our next meeting July 6th or at the following meeting in August.

There are some real issues with the back nine and they are as follow:

1. there are no amateur tee boxes. See a need for three alternatives, pro, intermediate and beginner courses as we would want this event to support all segments of the community including children
2. significant poison ivy and bug problems
3. space has only been rough cut once this season
4. limited assistance for the volunteer labor for this project


Did Jay come up with these 4 issues on his own, or did he have someone putting this in his head.

There is no need for amateur tee boxes at Ninigret in order to run a tournament. That was something you told him to put an end to my event.

There is always going to be poison ivy at the park. Maybe if you spent time and money on spraying the poison ivy instead of spraying and killing the grass on Hole 7, some of the ivy would be gone. Also, Ninigret is near a very large pond and is in a widelife protected area...do you think that you will be able to get rid of bugs? Another thing that you came up with to put an end to my event.

Space has only been rough cut once so far. If it was cut at the beginning of september, then it would not have been an issue to have the event. Instead of saying, "I think we could get one more cut in before the event.", you said that it couldn't happen and that you would not be there to help.

5. Ran into TM at the course and he proceeded to scream at me for not bringing this up with him first.

I am sure that I did NOT Scream at you…if I was screaming at you…your ears would have been bleeding…

I doubt that you could make my ears bleed by screaming at me...highly unlikely, but you were screaming at me that morning.

I asked you who these other “Local Players” were… who could and would mow the course… between now and your proposed event…I asked why I had not been introduced to these players…You did not even know the names of these alleged “local players”…

The few names that you do know…I am already working with these people…

I don't live down there anymore, so I am not in touch with all the players. Ryan and J told me about a guy that wanted to start up a shared mowing program at the course. I don't know the guys name that wanted to start this. I wonder if there is some sort of club that could be formed to help organize and keep track of all this. If only there was some type of group that could form a club. Oh that's right, you don't want to have a club because other people would have a say in what goes on at the park. Instead, you want to control everything.

When the back nine was first being cut out, I was there. A few years ago, when the town said it was OK to put the baskets back in temporarily, I was there two days to help cut and drag brush. I was there a few times this winter to help out as well...I live 1.5 hours away and still came down to help you. I did try to rally troops, but 3 people showed because it was funk 15 degrees that day. If we had more people, it would have taken a lot less time to do that work. There was only 4 of us.

I have been working within what the Town of Charlestown agreed would be the parameters of what should be done to the Disc Golf Course…inside Ninigret Park…

You may want to meet with them in person to explain what you think should be different…If you would like to change what is agreed upon with the Town of Charlestown about the Disc Golf Course…

They are working with me as the “Course Designer” and the “Volunteer Coordinator” to make it all happen… for some reason YOU do not want to work with me…

Installing a fence on hole 13 to accommodate a bad mando choice is all on you buddy. Move the mando to the large pine tree on the corner and then you wouldn't have to cut the 45 foot fairway in half by putting up some stupid fence! I can't count the number of different people and number of times someone has told you that this was a bad idea. There is no such thing as working with you, because you do not listen to the ideas or direction of other people.

What about the mando pole on hole 8? You can't even see it from the tee and will only lead to a guessing game of if the shot was good or not. NO ONE PLAYS THAT MANDO EXCEPT FOR YOU! If you don't play the mando and decide to go over the top of the 30 foot trees, and then miss your shot, you are deep in the woods trying two or three shots to get out. It's called risk vs reward and is a big part of course design.

The decision to put up tee signs instead of saving money to install baskets...why waste money on this sort of thing? What has happened to all the course funds that have been raised over the years? Is there a clean record of this? I wonder if there is some sort of club that could be organized to...


6. I contacted the town today and promptly got an email back stating:


We will be conducting a tournament in the midwinter called the Frostbite Tournament and we will entertain a tournament in the Spring, summer or fall of 2011 for a seventeen or perhaps eighteen hole event from your organization. We are still working on the course now. I was out there today doing some sign building for the course to guide patrons around the first nine holes along with dog park signage. We have considerable amounts of cutting and grooming to do on the back nine, fifteen acres. WE have a major mosquito problem out there at the moment.

That is your tournament! Good luck with it, I hope it is a success.

[Matt DeAngelis]

Hey Matt,

I want to run a RI State Overall Championship at Ninigret next Sept 2011...

I want to run some field events like Distance,Accuracy, MTA,Freestyle...

Also want to run a NEFA points Disc Golf competition at this event as well...

OK, how about I'll be the TD for the NEFA disc golf portion of the event, and you can TD the field events? I've only run distance comps and none of the other events. Perhaps we could get camping at the park as well? Two day, Overall Championship, 2 x NEFA points, camping at the course....wow that sounds like a blast.

[T.M.DYER]

Hey Matt,

You wrote this is not a bash thread...

I posted your e-mails...and what Jay wrote you back...

I have all my contact info all over the course...

You take to the open forum to continually air out your personal frustrations with me and the Town of Charlestown...

I do not understand your childish issues...

I will not take a lot of my time to respond to all of your personal opinions of what I might have or may not have said to the town....

I have tried very hard from the begining of the Course design and install to present a balanced and varied set of skill challenges from all of the tees set for the different skill levels...

I find it hard to believe that you did not recognize what has changed from the towns perspective...

They want to mow it themselves...it is not ready to mow with grass cutting equipment...

Is any of your rant about positive efforts to work together???

I tried to point out that the meetings where your event suggestion would or might be discussed... have NOT even taken place...

So how is it that I quashed your event...

I invite you and anyone else to be part of the RI Disc Championship Committee and to meet and talk about when,what, and how may be the best way to run a first class event at Ninigret Park...

I beleve this is not my first offer...

Thanks,
T.M.DYER

[Ryan Girard]

How do you get the popcorn eating emoticon?

[Buzzkill]

[Ryan Girard]

Thanks Greg, that's perfect!

[Matt DeAngelis]

You wrote this is not a bash thread...

You take to the open forum to continually air out your personal frustrations with me and the Town of Charlestown...

I have tried very hard from the begining of the Course design and install to present a balanced and varied set of skill challenges from all of the tees set for the different skill levels...

They want to mow it themselves...it is not ready to mow with grass cutting equipment...

First off, I'm not bashing you TM. I've expressed why working with you on anything related to Ninigret is a lost cause. You do not accept alternate ideas about the course design/layout and go on your way. That is fine, but don't try to make it seem like you have created a diplomatic way of getting the course together.

That is the whole point of an open forum! It's meant to bring up thoughts and ideas and discuss them. I don't think there is anything childish about it.

You have done a good job with designing the course to fit a varied skill level and challenge. However, some of the decisions you have made are flawed. You do not listen to other peoples ideas and when an idea is in oposition with yours, you take your ball and you go home.

That is great that the town wants to mow it. Hopefully they can do something with the poison ivy and bugs, otherwise, a tournament during the non-winter months will never be possible.

[Matt DeAngelis]

pass the popcorn.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Deja vu from the J-Park redeisgn !!!! Every player that ever set foot on the course had their idea of how we should redesign the course. It was an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE !!!

When it comes to course design, less opinions is sometimes better. Let 2-3 guys hash it out and then find a crew that willing to help clear things out WITHOUT trying to change the design. But it sounds like you guys are well into the "fun" part already so I wish you the best with this RI course and hope to get out there and play it one day.

[Matt DeAngelis]

Let's be clear, the course is designed well and TM did a great job with that. There are only a few aspects that could use some tweaking. Many people share this same philosophy. It is not 15 people saying that hole x should be tweaked 15 different ways. It is 15 people saying it should be handled one way, and one person saying no.

[Jason_Graham]

Seriously, the RI Disc Championship Commitee????????
What self-appt'd nazi came up with that?????
Is that a one or two member self-made non-profit fuk-a -roo of some kind??????
Fuk any frostbite sideshow tourney, and efffff any schitt dik eye-sore "billboards" in the middle of fairways.
I will personally put up added cash of $1000 to be divided up somehow at a friendly social gathering tbd.
Anyone wants to try and stop me can talk to Pat, Pat McGroin.
Stay tuned......
Until then, RhodeKill style lives on, making up fun holes all over the state.

j graham

got suntin' to say?

[Matt Aubin]

Bummer.

maybe you guys could do a temp course on a really sweeeeet piece of already cleared land/park (similar to the Utopia Open on Sherwood Island in CT) for your 2x event. I'm sure you could get enough interest and baskets if it were planned out well in advance. It would also be a great way to introduce a lot of people to the sport.

Providence Open? Block Island Invitational? you don't need a pruned permanent course to hold a fun event.

[ekap]

That is a great idea. Matty B runs some huge Ultimate events on borrowed/rented land.

[Matt DeAngelis]

yawn...

[Jim OConnell]

"I was just changing" J-Roc


Detroit Velvet Smooth

[Titan Bariloni]

"I was just changing" J-Roc


Detroit Velvet Smooth

Starsky and Guts