Dam Hill @ Buff Nov 5th 9am

Tim Carter · Post by **Tim Carter** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:23 pm

Awesome time today at buff. Looks like home team takes it... By three points? Team Buff Baby.

M.P. Morse III · Post by **M.P. Morse III** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:05 pm

awesome day today!!!

great round Frank!

Al Rowden · Post by **Al Rowden** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Al is undefeated and coming for burtt

M.P. Morse III · Post by **M.P. Morse III** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:17 pm

Steven Dakai wrote:all square after singles

was that you hiding in the woods with the camcorder??? :mrgreen:

Andy Duquette · Post by **Andy Duquette** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:59 pm

Thanks for all the food. That was the best spread out of any of the team matches I've played. Those chocolate/oreo balls were amazing.

My groups were fun. Thanks for having us.

Dave Hickson · Post by **Dave Hickson** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:18 pm

That was a battle. Thank you to the Dam team for a great day of disc. I had a blast both rounds today and got to meet some new people.

So after singles it was tied 6-6 with 3 ties. Then we played some dubs. That went 6-9 Buff.

Team Buff 15 Dam Hill 12

Dave Hickson · Post by **Dave Hickson** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:27 pm

Dan Hill @ Buff singles scores

Sunny/Amy - Dam
Nourse/Gardner - tie
Alex/Rowden - tie
Bru/Luke - Dam
Hamilton/Burtt - Dam
Dj/Duke - Dam
Britton/Lyons - Buff
Wimer/Jaybob - Buff
Troy/Grayum - Buff
Binley/Mehr - Buff
Hart/Carter - Dam
Connor/Whitten - Buff
Strauss/Morse - tie
Hickson/AlMac - Buff :wink:

Rogers/Person - Dam

Buff 6 Dam 6

Dave Hickson · Post by **Dave Hickson** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:37 pm

Dam Hill @ Buff doubles scores

Hickson/Person 54 Troy/Britton 60 Buff
Duke/Mehr 56 Wimer/Nourse 58 Dam
Binley/Grayum 51 AlMac/Jaybob 57 Buff
Alex/Strauss 57 Torr/Shahen 58 Dam
Rowden/Kaj 52 Rogers/Hamilton 59 Buff
Luke/Hart 56 Burtt/Connor 53 Buff
Dj/Lyons 60 Whitten/Gardner 58 Dam
Amy over Sunny Buff

Buff 9 Dam 6

Dave Jackson · Post by **Dave Jackson** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:50 pm

Yeah Boyee John Hart!!!! :wink:

Andy Duquette · Post by **Andy Duquette** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:22 am

I won vs DJ.... by 4

Dave Hickson · Post by **Dave Hickson** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:48 am

Sorry Duke your right I fixed it.

Luke Adolph · Post by **Luke Adolph** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:32 pm

Fun times yesterday at Buff, I enjoyed the course in the new layout (hadn't been there for about 2 years) and team buff were great hosts!

Too bad we had some issues with the playoffs in match play. I'm curious as to why 2 A pool team (tully rock & captain) were able to play off in their match yesterday and we were not. It stings a bit to have lost overall knowing that we actually won those 3 playoff matches and they didn't count. Is there any official ruling of this somewhere?

Kevin Gardner · Post by **Kevin Gardner** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:30 pm

Luke Adolph wrote:Fun times yesterday at Buff, I enjoyed the course in the new layout (hadn't been there for about 2 years) and team buff were great hosts!

Too bad we had some issues with the playoffs in match play. I'm curious as to why 2 A pool team (tully rock & captain) were able to play off in their match yesterday and we were not. It stings a bit to have lost overall knowing that we actually won those 3 playoff matches and they didn't count. Is there any official ruling of this somewhere?

Word.

Tim Carter · Post by **Tim Carter** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:11 pm

My limited understanding of team challenge rules is that the captains can AGREE to play off ties, but I don't think they did so.

My much more substantial understanding of losing, is that being a sore loser sucks.

Matt Grayum · Post by **Matt Grayum** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:18 pm

Luke Adolph wrote:Fun times yesterday at Buff, I enjoyed the course in the new layout (hadn't been there for about 2 years) and team buff were great hosts!

Too bad we had some issues with the playoffs in match play. I'm curious as to why 2 A pool team (tully rock & captain) were able to play off in their match yesterday and we were not. It stings a bit to have lost overall knowing that we actually won those 3 playoff matches and they didn't count. Is there any official ruling of this somewhere?

I know where your coming from BUT if I had a tie in my match play I wouldn't have played a "playoff" because I was told we weren't supposed to unless there is a team tie after both rounds. Soo it also wouldn't have been fair to give you those rounds as a win because it was never stated. I think a lesson learned is that the "rules" need to be specified before a team challenge round where everyone hears it. Also OB needs to be specified and drop zones more clearly. Drop zone on hole 2 since when? And the "path" on 9 being inbounds since when? I'm not saying Hickson called this (maybe he did) but some of the Dam team was under the impression this was the case when we have never played it that way in a tourney or league I've played there. ?????

Tim Carter · Post by **Tim Carter** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Agreed that the buff rules can be extensive and a little intense. But the drop zone on hole 2 is listed on the cards we used yesterday. It started being used just about the time when some guys put down a pad and made a drop zone for hole 2.

Didn't the push/ play-off issue cost us points last week at hyland, when we were in the winning side of a play off that was wiped off the board?

Kevin Gardner · Post by **Kevin Gardner** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:45 pm

I always figured if the group decided to play it off it would count. I would've been equally annoyed had i been beaten in a playoff. If I lose I lose. To me a tie is worse than a loss. Very odd to not have it count. I would get it if we tied and didn't play it out but all three matches were played out.
Ask any random person on the street "If you played 18 holes of golf against someone and you were tied, what happens?"
They would automatically say "A playoff."
Not to mention, like Luke said, the tie in the Tully/Capt. L. challenge was played out and counted.
I would understand if we came back at the end and didn't know what to do with our tie, but every group agreed to play it out.
If letting a tie stand is the OFFICIAL ruling, that I think needs to be edited somehow, if only so the players involved have a sense of closure haha

Tim Carter · Post by **Tim Carter** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:20 pm

Tying is worse than losing? Ok kev.

not sure what you mean by "if" that is the official rule. When I have a question about the rules for team challenge I ask my captain. Maybe your captain can explain the rule to you. Here is another IF for you though, IF you had won your match, you wouldn't be worried about the tie rule. Here is another IF. IF your team won, we wouldn't be talking about it today.

Closure? Here is the thing you keep missing. Players do get a sense of closure, as a team, when the team wins or loses. Steve already tried to explain to you how that works...

Kevin Gardner · Post by **Kevin Gardner** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:33 pm

Again, not about me.
A tie IS worse than a loss. It's about gamesmanship my friend.
IF it's the official rule, why did the A pool teams play theirs out?
IF roles were reversed, I would be equally annoyed at the ruling. Gamesmanship again.
IF there was closure, why are we still dealing with it??
Why is it when someone else makes their point, it moves on as a discussion yet when I do I get singled out??

Luke Adolph · Post by **Luke Adolph** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:52 am

Thanks, Matt. I appreciate the response & if any of the 3 groups involved in the playoff heard that same ruling beforehand there wouldn't be any questions at all. I've been involved with team challenge for 4 years and had to split points once. Every other tie was played off. I even said to Alex and Al who played off in my group that it might not count if the captains agreed beforehand but I'm asking now because that didn't seem to happen ahead of time so I was looking for more of a league wide ruling as to why some teams can play off and others can't.

I hope this doesn't come off as being a sore loser as someone already pointed out. Just trying to get clarity for going forward. Also If those points turned out to be important to you guys I'm sure you might inquire as well.

Your a good bunch of guys and I hope to see you all out there soon!

Dave Hickson · Post by **Dave Hickson** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:11 am

Tim Carter wrote:My limited understanding of team challenge rules is that the captains can AGREE to play off ties, but I don't think they did so.

That basically sums it up. I never agreed to playoff any singles matches. I was against it as soon as I found out it was happening. It did not matter to me who won the tie breakers. There is no need to make 28 people sit and wait over an hour for dubs. I'd rather get a quick turnaround into the doubles round.

I apologized to everyone for not announcing to not playoff matches.

Please understand though if it's not agreed upon beforhand between captains to playoff ties then a tie is a tie.

Andy Duquette · Post by **Andy Duquette** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:36 am

I still like the oreos cookie balls. Just saying.

Kevin Gardner · Post by **Kevin Gardner** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:39 am

Dave Hickson wrote:
Tim Carter wrote:My limited understanding of team challenge rules is that the captains can AGREE to play off ties, but I don't think they did so.

That basically sums it up. I never agreed to playoff any singles matches. I was against it as soon as I found out it was happening. It did not matter to me who won the tie breakers. There is no need to make 28 people sit and wait over an hour for dubs. I'd rather get a quick turnaround into the doubles round.

I apologized to everyone for not announcing to not playoff matches.

Please understand though if it's not agreed upon beforhand between captains to playoff ties then a tie is a tie.

Okay, this makes sense to me. Thank you Hickson!

Jeremy Binley · Post by **Jeremy Binley** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am

Andy Duquette wrote:I still like the oreos cookie balls. Just saying.

2nd! Those things were Amazing!

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:03 am

Nice win Buff. Ties can be played off, but a tie is better than a loss I guess? It has to be agreed by captains and to tell you the truth most teams count ties as such, ties.

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:08 am

Joe Yaskis wrote:Nice win Buff. Ties can be played off, but a tie is better than a loss I guess? It has to be agreed by captains and to tell you the truth most teams count ties as such, ties.

I remember a fierce battle with Joey Yaskis in 3 feet of snow that ended in a tie last winter. Ties make more sense than playing on. Some folks may have ended after 12 holes and playing an extra 6 holes means that they need to wait around for 2 hours for your match to end. Take the tie for the team and consider it a great match.

Luke Adolph · Post by **Luke Adolph** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:32 am

Dave Hickson wrote:
That basically sums it up. I never agreed to playoff any singles matches. I was against it as soon as I found out it was happening. It did not matter to me who won the tie breakers. There is no need to make 28 people sit and wait over an hour for dubs. I'd rather get a quick turnaround into the doubles round.

I apologized to everyone for not announcing to not playoff matches.

Please understand though if it's not agreed upon beforhand between captains to playoff ties then a tie is a tie.

Thanks! That is more information than I had previously and it makes sense. Good luck the remainder of the year, I am sure you will continue to do well!

Matt Grayum · Post by **Matt Grayum** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:33 am

Matt Stroika wrote:
Joe Yaskis wrote:Nice win Buff. Ties can be played off, but a tie is better than a loss I guess? It has to be agreed by captains and to tell you the truth most teams count ties as such, ties.

I remember a fierce battle with Joey Yaskis in 3 feet of snow that ended in a tie last winter. Ties make more sense than playing on. Some folks may have ended after 12 holes and playing an extra 6 holes means that they need to wait around for 2 hours for your match to end. Take the tie for the team and consider it a great match.

That was my thoughts exactly when I heard 3 playoffs were happening. How long could it go on for? 1 hour? 2 hours? 3 hours? 2 days? Maybe?

So if playoffs were allowed then there would have to be a ruling on how many holes could be played for sake of time for the challenge to be completed before dark. And if the number of holes were specified that could be played off then I'm assuming there could still be a TIE! At some point the round has to be called and in this case it's after 18 unless the captains agree otherwise. I suppose some sort of ruling could be made on a tie by how many deuces you got in your round or something...nope.

Luke Adolph · Post by **Luke Adolph** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:35 am

Andy Duquette wrote:I still like the oreos cookie balls. Just saying.

I respectfully requst that Andy obtains this recipe and combines it with his fluff/cream cheese dip thing. It just has to happen!

Josh Connor · Post by **Josh Connor** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:39 am

Definitly a great challenge with some premium food, weather, and peoples. I appreciate you guys being good sports with all of the confusion around the playoff/tie situation.

Had a good time first round against Big N Tasty and I apologize for my advanced ability to come within inches of OB on 1, 2, 7, 9 and I am sure there were a couple I am forgetting, but I would like to claim they were precision bombs that were placed right where I wanted them. Good luck with the rest of the season guys.

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