** locked **

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I'll agree that communication IS an issue. But mostly because of the distance between us and not the egos........... as fas as I've seen. I just assume people's emails, PMs and such are genuine. I know assumiong this leaves me open to be "had" but so far, with this group, i havent seen it.


I finally checked out Skype and 1 on 1 talks are free. Not sure if a multiple-person teleconference would be free though............ and that's what we'd need.

[Kyle Stevens]

I'll agree that communication IS an issue. But mostly because of the distance between us and not the egos........... as fas as I've seen. I just assume people's emails, PMs and such are genuine. I know assumiong this leaves me open to be "had" but so far, with this group, i havent seen it.


I finally checked out Skype and 1 on 1 talks are free. Not sure if a multiple-person teleconference would be free though............ and that's what we'd need.

Team Speak is free. You can host it here on this server, makes it private, and easily accesible

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I dunno dude, Ive already laid it out pretty clear elsewhere. But for the record, I think Rob Tatro is as bad as Steve Solbo was as president..worse in some cases...cause I know a few who were really betting on him to make a big difference. I understand bad stuff happened..all that jazz. I saw him at one tourney this year. Would have expected to see him schmoozing with potential members, but I did not see anything like that happen. It was absentee volunteerism all year. Ill probably get blasted for that..but its genuinely how I feel.

Dano...I dont even know what he did for the series this year. Put on a great tourney at Amesbury though. It ticks me off that he doesnt read the forums..even the "points series issues" and he requires direct contact OUTSIDE of NEFA. Its not what you would expect from the points series chair.

I dont even want to get started on DM.

Did you get the details about the legal issue NEFA is dealing with? It's a pretty big and time consuming ordeal. Then stack on a wife and kids, soccer coach, Parks & Rec representative and a broken leg. Oh yea, he's a school teacher too. Hardly the "absentee volunteerism" you call it................... more like a busy life.

Not blastin ya, Kyle....... just pointing out facts.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I'll agree that communication IS an issue. But mostly because of the distance between us and not the egos........... as fas as I've seen. I just assume people's emails, PMs and such are genuine. I know assuming this leaves me open to be "had" but so far, with this group, i havent seen it.


I finally checked out Skype and 1 on 1 talks are free. Not sure if a multiple-person teleconference would be free though............ and that's what we'd need.

Team Speak is free. You can host it here on this server, makes it private, and easily accesible

You're slowly talkin' yourself into a volunteer position here Thanks for the tip.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Did you get the details about the legal issue NEFA is dealing with? It's a pretty big and time consuming ordeal. Then stack on a wife and kids, soccer coach, Parks & Rec representative and a broken leg. Oh yea, he's a school teacher too. Hardly the "absentee volunteerism" you call it................... more like a busy life.

Pretty sure he would've passed on the Prez job had he been able to see the scope of what this year was gonna deal him. The lawsuit, coaching gig and broken leg were ALL handed to him AFTER he was elected. Although two of them are non-NEFA realted, they're still an unforseen time consuming addition.

[Kyle Stevens]

Id be willing to help wherever I can Jeff. Gary Cyr will tell ya otherwise..but the offer has been out.

As for Robs busy life..I get that. I really honestly understand that. I also try to believe that he has NEFAs best interest at heart...and I understand a good deal of the legal issue. Up until this last post at Titan, I believed he was a pretty stand up honest guy. Kinda seems like a snake to me now.

My position is, and has been, that a responsible volunteer would have stepped aside..would have said "this is more than I can handle" and passed the wheel. That is what I mean by absentee volunteerism. Hes holding the position with no real ability to man it. It wouldnt make him any less of a pres if he had stepped aside.

[Andrew McManus]

All I can say at this point is that I too recognize that communication is an issue that needs to be dealt with and will be dealt with. Having said this, I do honestly believe that the best way to communicate in regards to members with the BOD is through personal PMs or phone/e-mail. If you've been ignored while using those avenues of communication, then clearly there is no excuse for that at all and that is something I will certainly strive to fix because I'm all about the members.

If you come across using Titan's approach (and if you do an exhaustive review of most of his posts, they all take the same approach..yep, no tact, broadcast blaming accompanied by petty insults), then understandably, you're going to meet resistance, even if you have the best of intentions...I think I can safely say that across the board for any form of communication in any forum...leisure, business, etc, etc.

So keep on ignoring tact Titan...you continually blow it off as a non issue and you can see where that's gotten you...good luck moving forward.

[Sandy Redd]

first off titan and kyle,
You two have no f'in clue what goes on. There was some really big shizz that happened this year. So why dont both of you keep your opinions to yourself. Rob is one of the smartest and nicest guys you would ever meet.
And wait till DAno sees this he is going to rip a new one.
Titan do you really think you of all people is going to make the best organization that it is. No, because everyone hates you, because of the face you put on this forum and all the stuff you spit out your mouth.
So do us a favor and go start your own disc golf community and be the president there, cause all your doing is stirring the pot when we need to focus on the finals.

[Titan Bariloni]

skype...maybe I can bump the threead I posted long ago...long ago

town meeting= BOD on skype....linked to JTV stream for members to listen in on over stream...pretty simple and basically free...actually cheaper then traveling by 100x

how long can communication be the scapegoat in this era..? just saying

I understand the workload...just don't understand the ability to delegate task to able willing members who wanna help and have helped


can't have it all ways here guys...

and the breakdown from Nefa BOD to TD...he is on the BOD so kinda reverts back guys

[Jeff Wiechowski]

As for Robs busy life..I get that. I really honestly understand that. I also try to believe that he has NEFAs best interest at heart...and I understand a good deal of the legal issue. Up until this last post at Titan, I believed he was a pretty stand up honest guy. Kinda seems like a snake to me now.

My position is, and has been, that a responsible volunteer would have stepped aside..would have said "this is more than I can handle" and passed the wheel. That is what I mean by absentee volunteerism. Hes holding the position with no real ability to man it. It wouldnt make him any less of a pres if he had stepped aside.

Gotcha.......
But the legal issue INCLUDES him(NEFA Prez) and resigning in the middle of the issue probably wouldn't erase his name from it. But i could be wrong, i'm no lawyer.

Id be willing to help wherever I can Jeff. Gary Cyr will tell ya otherwise..but the offer has been out.

Uneccassry to drag Gary into this. You two had enough fun with the other thread.

[Gary Cyr]

Id be willing to help wherever I can Jeff. Gary Cyr will tell ya otherwise..but the offer has been out.

Don't bring me into this Kyle. I had enough of you two in the other thread and enough of Titan 2 years ago. I had a plan of attack. I brought the organization 501c3 and I begged Dave McHale to revamp the the tracking of the points series. I was making progress. But at the end of the year I took so much crap over the damn Finals (for which we had no say in the matter) that I reconsidered staying on. Then of course the crap I took for the election that was won in a LANDSLIDE was stupid. To actually accuse me of rigging the election,..I must say that was a blow.

You still have only volunteered to volunteer but haven't done any volunteer work. You've done a lot of armchair quarterbacking. You’ve delivered a lot of messages poorly. It seems that you and Titan ARE good at that. Step up and run for the positions. Titan did and got crushed. Maybe you can get crushed too.

It's guys like you two that continue to cause the "One and Done" mentality of every President since John Hart. Guys like you that continue to act like nothing good has happened within NEFA even though many things have. Guys like you that think NEFA is only about running some points series when it's not. Membership is not down. There are as many paid members at this point in 2011 as there were at the end of my year as President.

I don't like 72 players either. I think it's a terrible idea. But with as much talk Titan brings about his "Robert rules of Order" or whatever it is, he's saying that we should be following the rule. OK,..well that means it's the T.D.'s decision. And to say NEFA should "MAAAAAAAN UP" and enforce something there is no written authority to enforce is talking out of the other side of his mouth. You can't have it both ways. NEFA doesn't pick the TD, or the course. It only sets the number from each division and the payouts. Simple as that,..it's in the Charter.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

and one lil glitch.....the frigging field size is kinda important.....

agreed. But we were discussing it with Blaze. Would you rather us post it on the forum and leave it up to the members? It'd be pretty disrespectful to Blaze and we dont have time to put it to a full member vote.

..things like this will keep happening when ya change BOD duties every year cuz people don't like someone for personal reasons...I kept em sealed all year for the most part...let countless issues just slide on by...chalked it up to the "legal" issues..well hey when ya have people that wanna help and ya shut em out cuz ya think the person is a "tool" then hey your gonna get some slack when shart messes up..

not sure what you're getting at as far as "duties changing from year to year". Not many defined job descriptions here, maybe someone should submit an outline. As far as personal differences go, it happens EVERYWHERE. Not everyone gets along, the sooner you learn to deal with it, the better your life will become.

..I don't need to shout it from the mountains..its OBV in the lack of membership...

you're right, you don't NEED to....... But yet you do it over and over.

[Titan Bariloni]

you should not have to run in an election to be able to volunteer for nefa in an organized manner

if I am always so off base..why the uproar..hit ignore and move on...I think I strike nerves cuz I speak the truth...people appreciate the truth..so i am fine speaking about the truth

[Jeff Wiechowski]

you should not have to run in an election to be able to volunteer for nefa in an organized manner

again, read the entire post before you stick your foot in you mouth....... He had no clue when he first got elected about most of the extra life issues that would end up piling on.

if I am always so off base..why the uproar..hit ignore and move on...I think I strike nerves cuz I speak the truth...people appreciate the truth..so i am fine speaking about the truth

if that was the case, where are the legions of believers that are backing you up?

"crickets"

[Titan Bariloni]

if TD is on BOD and BOD says we did not know until it was too late...just seems strange to me

I called BS and said ME and NH finals sux...wow holy harsh teddyroxspin carebear people out there

I never said you rigged an election...just said it "could" be rigged under that formula..people hit me with the entire "use tact" crap cuz its bad for the ORG..I just simply pointed out a bigger flaw in the "ORG" then such as poor election process

The "other" thread was simply pointing out the fact I have been preaching on this thread...people wanna volunteer..the current BOD won't take the help or look for the help...when it is available..and then say they are over worked due to other "issues"

leaves the membership in some strange nomans land

simple as that really...all you bleeding post hearts can take it however ya want

[Titan Bariloni]

JW,

I opted out of the election last year..I am not gonna explain that again

trust me I will hear from many about the BS...I do everyday..they chose not to speak..I chose to speak...keep living in lalaland
sorry everyone gets defensive....life issues..we all have them some more then others...all ya can do is ask for help...it never was

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I said it before and I'll say it again..... Yes we assumed that Blaze was gonna go with 90 because he never mentioned 72 all year and we didn't ask.

Yes you suggested it last year and it never got added to the Charter. The current BoD is discussing this addition for the future.

There. Clear, concise answers to your questions.

Who's got that DBA ??? F'n stick it up Titans va-JJ.

[Trent Solomon]

There is no best way to get stuff done Andrew! Thats my point man! It doesnt matter if you yell and scream, whisper, quietly contemplate..it just doesnt matter. The guys that run this, not all of them mind you, but a good share of them..sit on their hands. There are volunteers for the org really doing the work and following through. But the dudes in charge....need to make way for someone willing to do the work. The old guard gets all up in arms anytime a mention is made by a member of something that needs to be fixed. take your medicine and deal with it..thats the message over and over. Its utterly ridiculous.

Hows getting that year old, brand new, NEFA logo up on the front page coming? Andrew, you appear to be a resonably intelligent dude with a good share of motivation. Do you think that finals, the points series, issue after issue, were handled to the best of this orgs. ability?

Which one of "those guys" are you speaking of, Kyle?

The new logo was never intended to replace the original one. Find a post that says different(aside from Titan's, he took the idea and ran with it on his own). There's a legal issue involving the original that requires a couple details to be included in the logo(which were not). The not-for-profit thing is very specific when it comes to the name of an organization and it's logos, symbols, etc.

care to elaborate?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

There is no best way to get stuff done Andrew! Thats my point man! It doesnt matter if you yell and scream, whisper, quietly contemplate..it just doesnt matter. The guys that run this, not all of them mind you, but a good share of them..sit on their hands. There are volunteers for the org really doing the work and following through. But the dudes in charge....need to make way for someone willing to do the work. The old guard gets all up in arms anytime a mention is made by a member of something that needs to be fixed. take your medicine and deal with it..thats the message over and over. Its utterly ridiculous.

Hows getting that year old, brand new, NEFA logo up on the front page coming? Andrew, you appear to be a resonably intelligent dude with a good share of motivation. Do you think that finals, the points series, issue after issue, were handled to the best of this orgs. ability?

Which one of "those guys" are you speaking of, Kyle?

The new logo was never intended to replace the original one. Find a post that says different(aside from Titan's, he took the idea and ran with it on his own). There's a legal issue involving the original that requires a couple details to be included in the logo(which were not). The not-for-profit thing is very specific when it comes to the name of an organization and it's logos, symbols, etc.

care to elaborate?

I don't have the details with me. Posting on my phone now.

[Pete Charron]

damn man...

Way too much negativity.

These conversations are the things that turn me off and should turn others away from this organization.

Who wants to turn to this forum for information about the 2011 NEFA Finals and read all this crap?

I'm just straight disappointed. Really. Such a bummer.

Titan, I'll be the first to say that I think you have AWESOME ideas on growing this sport. I read a lot of stuff on the forums and was really proud of you this year. I really felt like you had conducted yourself in a much more professional manner. If I voted in NEFA elections this year you would have had my serious consideration for whichever post, if any, you wished to run for.

But not after that man. I can't see how you warrant blowing up like that. It's stupid for me to involve myself, but I love this sport too. I volunteer my nutsac off growing the sport I love in the area I live. You gotta understand man...

WE"RE ALL IN THIS THING TOGETHER!!!


You put a black eye on this organization by having outbursts like that. I'm nobody but an incredibly dedicated member of NEFAm and that's the only position I"m coming from. That's the only reason I feel ok posting here, I am not at all trying to involve myself in this.

Neither Rob nor Sandy helped matters here at all in my opinion. Jeff, thanks for providing substance and holding people accountable for substance, and Andrew I appreciate the sincerity in the bulk of your posts.

Come on guys..... Let's all grow up.

I also want to give my HUGE thank you to all of the BOD and everyone who makes this organization tick. You guys have made this tournament season a great enjoyment and I can't wait for the finals.

Let's clean up our act.

Blaze, thank you for hosting this event, I know it's going to be great. I believe in the integrity of this organization and prestige that is the finals event.

If there are mistakes this year, let's learn from them and try to make it better for the next, that's all we can do. Until then, to Beauty Hill we Gooooo!!!!

YEEEEHOOOOO!!!

[Kyle Stevens]

first off titan and kyle,
You two have no f'in clue what goes on. There was some really big shizz that happened this year. So why dont both of you keep your opinions to yourself. Rob is one of the smartest and nicest guys you would ever meet.
And wait till DAno sees this he is going to rip a new one.
Titan do you really think you of all people is going to make the best organization that it is. No, because everyone hates you, because of the face you put on this forum and all the stuff you spit out your mouth.
So do us a favor and go start your own disc golf community and be the president there, cause all your doing is stirring the pot when we need to focus on the finals.

Damn straight skippy..absolutely correct..I have no idea what is going on. Thats cause as far as anyone knows..the board hasnt met since August of LAST YEAR! At least thats the last time the minutes were updated.

As far as Rob and Dano go...Im not attacking them personally. I have no comment on them personally..just the job they did this year. Im sure they are both stand up guys.

As far as keeping opinions to ourselves....I have a right to express them, and will do so. I know I dont always come off as particularly tactful myself, but I try. My main concern is that I want to see NEFA excel.

[Titan Bariloni]

I said it before and I'll say it again..... Yes we assumed that Blaze was gonna go with 90 because he never mentioned 72 all year and we didn't ask.

Yes you suggested it last year and it never got added to the Charter. The current BoD is discussing this addition for the future.

There. Clear, concise answers to your questions.

Who's got that DBA ??? F'n stick it up Titans va-JJ.

pretty simple really...TY JW that seems to be the bottom line and is fine

sorry people had to flex their cup size to get to a simple point

The new logo was never intended to replace the original one. Find a post that says different(aside from Titan's, he took the idea and ran with it on his own). There's a legal issue involving the original that requires a couple details to be included in the logo(which were not). The not-for-profit thing is very specific when it comes to the name of an organization and it's logos, symbols, etc.

yeah the old logo NEFA.com will be the face of NEFA..I can't even begin to dissect this issue I don't have the mind or time tonight....just goes to show ya..some think helping NEFA is just "running by yourself with it"....I guess people didn't like that disc from last years finals..IMO the logo is sharp...for now NEFA.com is what the BOD has decided to go with...pretty sure the members voted that out in a long well thought out fair friendly competition...legal issues..really?

And wait till DAno sees this he is going to rip a new one

tact police..? missed another one comments like this are what got this heated to begin with...and the "name" calling...so why don't you guys chill and take your own advice

sorry you guys cant take any slack for an OBV mess up overlook ect ect...when what JW said coulda just been stated from the start..."we messed up" instead the personal attacks started from the BOD to members..! facts guys facts

wow just wow

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I apologize to any I may have offened with my text here. Wasn't meant to be that way but it might be because I'm so dedicated to making "it" work.

I'm gonna sleep on it and then probably split this thread in the A.M. so that we can get back to the issue at hand............ a GREAT 2011 NEFA Finals !

[Rob Tatro]

My god Titan and Kyle, the verbiage that both of you spew here are laced with innaccuracies, innuendo, and assumption on both of your parts. I'll give you the fact that there are many things that we could be doing better, I hope the folks who take on leadership roles for us in the near future can identify some of those issues and work on them. However, I have a big problem with both of you when you jump to the demands, mandates, and the 'should have' arguments that you make.

The fact of the matter is that as of a week ago, Sandy was emailing with Blaze about moving the tourney up to 90. Once it was determined that it was going to stay at 72, maybe we 'could have' made an announcement but I don't really see the point. It would have given you a few days notice ... probably a few more days to complain really. I saw it coming from a mile away and we even said to each other that some of our members weren't going to be happy (me being one of them) but it's not in the charter, it's out of our control for now, and all we can do is make edits so that it is in our control in the future.

Kyle, you can compare me to whomever and/or whatever you want to. I don't know you, don't care to know you, and don't really want to get to know you as a matter of fact for the hate that you bring. Truth be told, there are plenty of things that we haven't been able to get to this year in NEFA land but what we have been able to do is to protect our interests long term (both with the 501c3 and the legal issues we face right now - both issues I did not see coming this year and took up just about all of my personal time) while improving some of the benefits for our NEFA members (revamped grants program, new tags for members both regular and gold, and online sign up for membership). There were many other things that I would have loved to get to but the bottom line is that I don't have the time and/or energy. I won't go into reasons why because I don't feel like I owe it to you or anyone else for that matter ... besides you'd call them excuses anyway - weak.

Finally, Titan, I was mistaken when I called you a tool. I misused the term and for that I apologize. What I meant to say was troll (one who purposely and deliberately starts arguments in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his peers). I can't begin to keep up with your drivel ... you'll always win a post war against me and you are the king of 'should have'. You throw your vitriol in a million different directions in the hope that something sticks and it works for you. You get a pants tent out of getting a rise out of others and for that you should be congratulated - awesome, way to go, you're the man!

[Jim Wills]

2nd x 10

I tell you its so sad 2 see this dribble on the board and its the #1 reason
why I stay away from this site now (and being busy with a new job). These
kinda folks will never be part of the solution because they are part of the
problem.

Thank you to all the NEFA BOD and the large group of contributors who give
there time and effort in dealing with this crap along with all the other great
things you do and have done for us - IN YOUR SPARE TIME

Rob, I sincerely hope you look past this garbage and continue to lead us in the
future as you have the respect of many people.

[Davis Johnson]

A shame to pile all this stuff on one of the best and most competent NEFA presidents we have ever had. But I guess that's the Achilles heel of democracy-- any and all no matter how incompetent, can take their potshots safely from the sidelines.

[Dan Ouellet]

Titan is this how you market yourself for a future run as Nefa President? You are one of the most negative people I have ever listened to. You constantly pick everything apart. And you wonder why NO ONE wants "your help" in regards to this disc golf organization.
I had to stop reading this thread cause I could not stand you replying to your own post over and over again.
I am sure you will post a reply to this and then post again and again before anyone else does.
The NEFA BOD has worked very hard to make this a successful finals. Could it be better? Of course it can. None of us wanted a 72 player cap. As Rob stated it was a issue w/ the host course. It will be corrected in next yrs charter, trust me.
We raised over $500 to off set the cost of this finals for players. A $13 entry fee is awesome for the return players get throughout the day . I hope everyone has a good time.

[Paul Sullivan]

Seriously ??? 24 hours with no negativity and you just have to start [bleep] again. Just let it be. Rise above it all, will ya.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Seriously ??? 24 hours with no negativity and you just have to start [bleep] again. Just let it be. Rise above it all, will ya.

2nd this.

[Drew Smith]

ME and NH sux

So 90 players on a course = doesn't suck? Sour grapes I guess.