Question for Chuck

[Titan Bariloni]

Karl is IN for trophy only....I personally hope he shoots his best ever and crushes everyone!

GO KARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRL

[Charlie Holmgren]

Would've been cool if he chose to play. But he didn't.

Gooooooooooo TiiiiiiiiiiiItaaaaaaaaaaaan!

[Titan Bariloni]

epic fail



Karl your fans are disappointed

[Bobby Direnzo]

[Titan Bariloni]

franchi was spewing propaganda about not being able to take casual relief behind water ect anymore and said ya gotta play it where it lies?

is this true?

ty

[Josh Connell]

franchi was spewing propaganda about not being able to take casual relief behind water ect anymore and said ya gotta play it where it lies?

is this true?

ty

No.

[Titan Bariloni]

the . serves as a !

TY as I said propaganda

[Chuck Kennedy]

I think the casual water rule may need some tweaking to deal with late winter/spring golf when there's snow and ice melt going on like we played in yesterday. We did not allow any relief among us if we landed on melting snow or ice where there was water either on top or under ice/snow regardless whether it was standing or running water.

I'm really not sure how a marshal would call it short of the TD just specifiying in advance what was considered casual relief since snow and ice are not considered casual per the Rules Q&A. Strictly by the letter of the rules, if the water was under the snow/ice then no relief. If group agrees there's water on top of the snow/ice in that spot then you get relief. But that's kind of weird to play by those strict interpretations and would lead to potential slow downs and arguments.

[Bill Newman]

snow + ice = "winter rules"...take liberal relief...safety first..noboby gets hurt...

[Titan Bariloni]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9540&p=273355#p273355

chuck when ya get a sec...please read my last post in regards to pdga approval process for new to market baskets..ty

[Chuck Kennedy]

Already answered over there before I saw this.

[Titan Bariloni]

ty

[Titan Bariloni]

Chuck please check petersham thread ma area...Tim b last post...i only have phone or i woulda linked. Ty

edit

http://forums.nefa.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8942&p=280822#p280822

How do we go about getting the course rated or certified with the PDGA. When I go to get the scorecards made I would like to have the course rating or difficulty factor on the card.

[Sean Jack]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks in advance for your availability on this forum. Had another debate on the course yesterday. Regarding a falling putt inside the circle, can a player literally fall backwards/sideways as long as he does not advance past the rear edge of the marker disc? The rule below says that you have to demonstrate balance before advancing towards the hole. Obviously if I fall on my butt after a putt, I was not balanced yet I certainly did not follow through past the marker. Can you clarify please? Thanks.

C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc
to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the
thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the
marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full
control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

[Josh Connell]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks in advance for your availability on this forum. Had another debate on the course yesterday. Regarding a falling putt inside the circle, can a player literally fall backwards/sideways as long as he does not advance past the rear edge of the marker disc? The rule below says that you have to demonstrate balance before advancing towards the hole. Obviously if I fall on my butt after a putt, I was not balanced yet I certainly did not follow through past the marker. Can you clarify please? Thanks.

C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc
to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the
thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the
marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

In short, yes, falling backwards or sideways inside the circle is legal.

I think the confusion is in the term "falling putt". Falling putt has come to describe any violation of the rule you quote, when in truth, falling is only illegal if you fall forward and contact the playing surface between your marker and the target. Not all falling putts are illegal, but most illegal putts can be referred to as falling putts.

The demonstrating balance thing doesn't have a time limit, either. If you fall backwards, sure you didn't establish balance immediately after the shot, but simply by sitting on the ground then getting back to your feet, I think you're establishing your balance before you advance past the marker.

[Titan Bariloni]

The demonstrating balance thing doesn't have a time limit, either. If you fall backwards, sure you didn't establish balance immediately after the shot, but simply by sitting on the ground then getting back to your feet, I think you're establishing your balance before you advance past the marker.

hmmm

this seems not right..not saying not true..why have the rule then it basically unenforceable unless ya fall forward..and that is covered in "falling putt"

so I putt..the disc is in air(from here to here seems gray)disc comes to rest..basket/ground/ect I then...what

not fall forward?...and I can fall backwards or sideways while the disc is even in the air..do a teebow(cuz of course I hit my putt) then stand back up to show "balance"...without going past my front line towards basket..then I can walk past my mark towars the basket and retrieve my disc..?


I get it but to me falling putt and maintain balance would mean something else..perception I guess

rules make me

[Matt DeAngelis]

That's the point. You can't advance in front of your mark after a putt inside the circle, unless you demonstrate balance first. What does it matter if you fall backwards? No advantage there.

[Josh Connell]

The demonstrating balance thing doesn't have a time limit, either. If you fall backwards, sure you didn't establish balance immediately after the shot, but simply by sitting on the ground then getting back to your feet, I think you're establishing your balance before you advance past the marker.

hmmm

this seems not right..not saying not true..why have the rule then it basically unenforceable unless ya fall forward..and that is covered in "falling putt"

so I putt..the disc is in air(from here to here seems gray)disc comes to rest..basket/ground/ect I then...what

not fall forward?...and I can fall backwards or sideways while the disc is even in the air..do a teebow(cuz of course I hit my putt) then stand back up to show "balance"...without going past my front line towards basket..then I can walk past my mark towars the basket and retrieve my disc..?


I get it but to me falling putt and maintain balance would mean something else..perception I guess

rules make me

The term "falling putt" doesn't appear in the rule book at all. "Falling putt" is a colloquialism, not an official term. It really doesn't matter what your definition of it is of if you think it conflicts with "maintaining balance". It is irrelevant as far as the rules go.

Maintaining balance doesn't have a time limit because it isn't a timed event. As long as you demonstrate balance before you advance in front of your mark, it doesn't matter if it takes you two seconds, two minutes, or two hours to establish it (well, if it takes you that long, there are other rules you might be in violation of). So it doesn't matter if you fall backwards, stand still, or do a back flip, so long as you demonstrate balance before you walk forward, you haven't done anything illegal.

[Chuck Kennedy]

As Josh points out, "falling putt" is not a term in the rulebook. It's simply called a foot fault. Look for my video on demonstrating balance that will be posted on the PDGA site within the next two weeks. It shows examples of what's allowed and what's a fault within 10m of the basket based on the new QA37 on demonstrating balance which is now official.

[Dave Jackson]

Nice Chuck!!!!!!

If people can see in a video what is right and what is wrong, it's really going to help disc golfers.

Especially tournament participating disc golfers.

More videos will help, as reading rule books can be a wee-bit-much for some. Not Josh though





Me

[Chuck Kennedy]

The video is up now: http://www.pdga.com/demonstrating-balance-putting

[Titan Bariloni]

I am sorry but maintaining balance should mean more then it does...

its a joke ya can fall backwards..regardless of if it does not gain an advantage for the shot

to me maintain balance..should mean just that.

[Josh Connell]

I am sorry but maintaining balance should mean more then it does...

its a joke ya can fall backwards..regardless of if it does not gain an advantage for the shot

to me maintain balance..should mean just that.

Thing is, maintaining balance is not the issue as far as the rule goes, demonstrating balance is. The word "maintaining" doesn't appear in the rule book at all. You don't have to maintain balance to demonstrate it. Sounds like double talk, but it's really not. To comply with the rules, you do not have to maintain balance throughout the act of throwing/following through. You only have to demonstrate balance before you advance/contact the playing surface in front of your mark. As I've said before, if it takes you a minute to establish/demonstrate that balance, that's allowed so long as you don't advance until you do.

[Patrick Harris]

The video is up now: http://www.pdga.com/demonstrating-balance-putting

Arggh!!! Not captioned or subtitled!! *sigh* Very typical of PDGA to do this.


Anyway, I have two (three) questions regarding to F-1 and F-2 in this video.

F-1, Can the player instead sit on a rock or on the ground on his butt but keeps one of the foot behind the marker to make the putt? Can they do it while sitting cross-legged? (dumb but valid question!)

F-2, Do the player allow to lift their foot away from the marker just the moment they twist around (on other foot) to make the putt or approach shot? (This I have seen very often at leagues and tournaments)

[Jeff Wiechowski]

The video is up now: http://www.pdga.com/demonstrating-balance-putting

Arggh!!! Not captioned or subtitled!! *sigh* Very typical of PDGA to do this.

C'mon PDGA get with it and add CC to your videos !!

[Chuck Kennedy]

The posted article provides the context. The text of the rule and QA37 is shown on screen. Every putting clip indicates Fault and Okay. Not a PDGA clip but a "Chuck as volunteer" video piece. So no full captioning but then I don't add much more in the narration anyway than what's already provided in text on the screen.

Yes to all three questions on F-1 and F-2.

[Titan Bariloni]

Thing is, maintaining balance is not the issue as far as the rule goes, demonstrating balance

ok..I see your point

just think that the spirit of the rule would not include falling down behind your lie..standing back up to demo balance and then proceed with X

I like the word maintain rather demonstrating IMO..

edit or both words

[Chuck Kennedy]

If your intent is to require a more elegant looking putting motion to be legal, we should apply that to other shots also. However, I'm thinking all of us have attempted and observed many ungainly but legal throws over the years flinging, flailing, lunging and shoveling shots from awkward stances including from one or both knees and even lying on the ground or where we ended up on the ground at times. To disallow falling behind your lie after releasing putts would seem to be an unnecessary restriction in relation to what we otherwise allow.

[Ben Kirby]

This is probably any easy one. When a disc goes OOP, it's still legal, right?

[Chuck Kennedy]

What's still legal? Not sure what you're asking?