Cranbury PArk course improvements

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:45 pm

Adam F. - Frizzaks -
I wanted to put together a scorecard with a map on the back side but we have not settled on the final course set up.

Is there any chance we could get together and finalize the course layout.
I like the idea of changing 6, 8 & 9.
Let me know...Tim

Matt Buono · Post by **Matt Buono** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:56 pm

umm the course is still being tweaked

we can save that for the end

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:38 pm

I do not know how to put this in a nice way..but some of the holes that the frizzaks came up with were not the best of holes (6, 8 &9 ) are wimpy holes...this is the time to look at all the options! There are no leaves on the trees, you can see the fairways, now is the time!
I'll be the one to stick my neck out, we are missing the true potential that Cranbury has to offer!
Just an Old Man with his opinion.

Craig Smolin · Post by **Craig Smolin** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:01 pm

From playing a round with Dave Jones - he had a few ideas for alternate tees on 6 and 8:

On 6, move the tee up the gulley between the rock wall and the hill side opposite, for a long straight, late fade righty hyzer or s-curve shot.

On 8, move the tee up the gulley as well, for a long straight, late lefty hyzer shot.

Frizzak idea for 9 was to move the pin PAST the rock outcrop and up the hill at least 100' into a clearing. This would change the tee shot from a short anny to a difficult uphill right s-curve shot, but potentially a more-straight forward lefty anny bomb (yes Dome I'm thinking of you here). Only problem would be getting back down to current Hole 10 tee.

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:14 pm

frizzak idea..LOL...Was it really???? ...But here is the thing...Hole six was suposed to be completely different but we got shut down and had to put it that way...The hole sucked and we cut a new fairway and were going to move the basket to its new position, BUT, someone moved it to an incorrect location...Hole 7 is awsome....Hole 8 was a filler and is disliked by all who play it...personally, I never even heard about that hole until I went up and saw it...It was supposed to go uphill. Hole 9 was supposed to remain as the old 8's fairway, with the basket placed on top of the rock...Hole 10 remains in the long position(all the time!!) new hole 11 will tee pin high from 10 long...first shot 225' to the corner, 245' up to basket on left side of path(short of current position). just sayin.....We just need a work day.

Ryan Brunelle · Post by **Ryan Brunelle** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:27 am

In my opinion our immediate focus should be to move holes 11, 12 and 14 off of the path. In no way will the town allow a flypad/teebox in the middle of the path. As such, if we do not move these holes, they will not have flypads. Of course, all these changes need to be approved by the town first. As we all know, we are not in good graces with the town or Friends of Cranbury at this point. Better to do things correctly than get the course pulled.

RyanB

Matt Buono · Post by **Matt Buono** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:31 pm

thanks tim I gald you realize that we are out there working on the course.... but we are not the only ones nor do we have perrmission to do what we want. the course still needs alot of love.... ths biggest problem I see is that everbody wnats to be in charge and design holes that thay want. than an agurement opens up and nothing gets done.

What we need is one or two people to have control while the rest of us shut and work just my 2 cents

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:03 pm

Well, i think you're gonna need some DUCT tape for Ol' bobby popawraith

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:51 pm

Domeo, I agree with you - everyone wants to put forth thier ideas and create a great course at Cranbury. I know the friZZaks do a ton of work along with many others! I think we all need to get together and talk about our ideas! I have to remember that it is very hard to get a message across without pissing people off! No harm or blame was ment!
Tim

Matt Buono · Post by **Matt Buono** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:20 pm

[quote="friZZak"]Well, i think you're gonna need some DUCT tape for Ol' bobby popawraith[/quot

how about a muzzle that he can only take off for 15 minutes every hour

matt jackson · Post by **matt jackson** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:34 pm

I agree with Ryan and Tim. First and formost we need to play by the rules to make sure the course doesn't get pulled. To that end it would make commen sense to run ANY changes past Adam. Whomever went nuts
with the day-glow orange paint, despite their good intentions , hurt our good standing with city of norwalk. We need to be patient , play nice with the city of norwalk and Mike M (parks dir.) and we'll get there.

That said, priority should go to replacing new holes 11,12 & 14 as/Ryan.
This makes sense on several levels. Get off the paths , avoid people/dogs/gravel and allow for flypad installation.

That would then present the task of making 3 or better yet 4 new holes because the new 18 hole would seem to be problematic due to fact that the open area is going to be crowded come summer . It would be great to have a 19 hole course again and keep the first 18 out of the way.

There is a lot of room out beyond the current holes 6,7,8. This area also has some nice elevation change and is away from the walking/dogging trails. (i don't doubt this was considered but should be revisited if possible)

If you could then find a hole in the woods to the left of the current 11 hole
you could link to the current 17 hole and then play the new 15 & 16 holes from there and end with the old 11b hole as 18 to get you back towards 1.
Just a thought.

Actually i'd prefer to see the entire course moved into the woods but
again i am happy to have ANY course/layout.

Suggestion: Get Frizzaks, Dave Jones, Adam Goodman, Ryan B., Tim S
Pat Skid and Adam F. together, maybe throw in young Will K. just for laughs,maybe a couple of others and brainstorm up a final masterplan and then see if that will fly w city hall.
If done right, Cranbury could really turn into a great course. It's pretty good right now. (I love the new 4 & 5 holes ) It just needs some tuning.
I'd be happy to host a meeting in my Norwalk home.

Just my .02

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:36 am

good idea..I sunday meeting(the sooner the better)...After the current ten and eleven, there is a lot of open fairways in the woods that would take very little cutting to make great....they link around to the basket of old 14...anyway...we'll see.

Adan Fasciolo · Post by **Adan Fasciolo** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:06 am

All of this discussion is very promising, but also a bit frustrating.

Back in the early fall, we actually did have a meeting to discuss all the changes we wanted to make. A lot of folks showed up. A lot of time was spent and we all agreed to the 5-6 new holes. Ryan and I then met with Mike at P&R to get his approval, which we got. Mike then went WAY beyond that to offer flypads and and offer to upgrade 5 holes per year over the next three years.

Then we scheduled a work day. Lots of people showed up who hadn't been to the first meeting and decided, on the fly, to amend many of the plans we had laid out, agreed to and had approved.

There are too many cooks in the kitchen. I've tried to include all the core players and make this a democratic process. But because of that, it's basically become a situation where half the players now feel entitled to move holes, cut down trees, paint signs (on trees), or move tees without consulting anyone else.

I'm not saying I want (or need) to be in charge. Actually, I've been trying to share that with the rest of the core players. But Ryan and Tim are both right, if we look like a group out of control, we will completely lose all of the good will we've built up with the city over the last ten years.

Here is what I suggest. The Ice Bowl is in three weeks. We should have a very good representation there of the core players (and if you consider yourself to be one of them, please show-up). After the second round we can have a meeting to discuss all of this.

We can get this right and make the course awesome. But, quite frankly, I'm getting really tired of all the crap that's going on. I don't even get to play the course anymore. Everytime I'm up there, I'm fixing a broken hole or scrubbing trees or re-numbering poleholes and my patience is running out.

Adan Fasciolo · Post by **Adan Fasciolo** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:10 am

by the way...

The broken collar on the stolen basket is fixed. That basket is now hole10 and is locked in at the short position.

And Tim, I think that your idea for a course map is excellent. The city has asked for one of these. They get a lot of requests for them. However, we obviously need to get the course finalized first. No sense in making a map and then having the holes move. As it is, the measurements you did (and the signs we made) are no longer accurate because there's already been some movement of holes and tees.

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:23 am

I agree that we need to settle on a final course lay out for the time being.

Then if we come up with a plan to change any holes in the future, we should present the ideas to the town of Norwalk. If we don't keep the town in the loop you are going to create bad will towards the disc golfers.

Adam,
I will create a score card with a map on the back when we are ready to go and what ever tee signs need to be changed just let me know and I will help.
Tim

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:23 am

Adam...In charlotte NC, there are a lot of great golfers to get input from, however, there is one person Who makes all the decisions...Stan Mcdaniel. He is always open to suggestions from golfers and volunteers, but he rules with an Iron fist. He makes all the final decisions...Maybe since we have a smaller core of golfers, you can Just choose three people and make them your commitee...One person from the main groups of golfers...U, ryan, a ZZ and another golfer.... U make the choices and plans and the volunteers may grumble, but the work and forward movement is more likely to happen.

Bill Dunne · Post by **Bill Dunne** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:37 am

I agree with friZZak!! One way to do it could be: After the Ice Bowl, you could have anyone (hopefully from the core group) who wants to be on this commitee ask to be nominated. Then put it up to a vote. The top 3 win! And if your not at the Ice Bowl... You should have been anyway!!

Craig Smolin · Post by **Craig Smolin** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:47 am

Bill - as much as I think that sounds reasonable - it really isn't. If there's a committee, it should really just consist of IMO - Ryan, Adam, Sjur, and Tim. No voting, no discussion. Those four guys have done the most work, have the best relationship with the town, and are consistently available for any and all course related issues. Of course I'm just a Smolin who knows nothing and suggests many foolish ideas :lol:

Bill Dunne · Post by **Bill Dunne** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:11 pm

Craig,

If those guys want the job, that's be great (although it should be a odd number of committee members). I love the way the course is coming along, but anything we can do to prevent a repeat of last fall's work day grumblings would be a major step in the right direction.

Adan Fasciolo · Post by **Adan Fasciolo** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:06 am

OK then, After the second round of the Ice Bowl we will have a meeting about course changes, course improvements, 2007 tournaments and any other course related topics.

I like the idea of a committee. I think that Ryan and Tim should be part of this. We'll need one representative from the Frizzaks. I'd like to see Dave Jones involved. He has decades of experience in this area. And there should be one rep from the Park Rats (Pat? Warren?) I will be the point person and liason to the Parks & Rec Dept. We will take input from all other players and make decisions about ALL course activities.

There will be a LOT of work to do this spring if we want to get 18 teeboxes with flypads installed. In order to get that accomplished, the most important thing is that we are in agreement as to what gets done and get ourselves organized.

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:53 am

Dave Jones should definately be on this comitee...So just to get ideas flowing before the ice bowl begins.....Holes 11 an 12 will have flypads by this spring...If im not mistaken, this wont work. When there is heavy rain the tee boxes will be overrun with debris. To stop this we would have to have a small wall or partition, which would essentially block the path. So...If hole 9 is in the long position....After putting out; there is potential for a teebox and fairway which runs parallel to hole 11 and fades away slowly from the path....we would lose holes 11 and 12 completely. Hole twelve would be replaced by a hole which runs 90 degrees away from the basket on hole 11...Just ideas, o get the meeting moving....

Ryan Brunelle · Post by **Ryan Brunelle** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:10 pm

Absolutely need a committee. I agree with all names mentioned. Dave Jones is pretty much one of the park rats anyhow and getting a hold of Pat and/or Warren is not so easy. As I mentioned before, holes 11, 12 and 14 CANNOT have flypads or any teeboxes for that matter, in their current position. Even if they were moved to the side of the path, the town will not allow this. We should definitely explore the land parallel to 11/12 for new holes.

RyanB

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:43 pm

I am currently working in the evenings and have Sundays off...We can also get together on monday or wedensday evenings to talk and draw up plans...On any given Sunday we can have a pretty decent workforce...I think that instead of spreading out these forces, I think we should focus on one a hole at time, or one project at a time so everyone can be monitored. If we have 7 or 8 people working on one project it can be finished in no time. I think that the current hole 6 can be changed into a better hole with no impact on the current flow of the course and/or the trees in the woods. The new tee position has been flattened already and a new placement is readily available...the hole becomes a short anhyzer, slighly uphill, completely off the walking path...The transition to the next tee increases a little, however, avoiding the foot traffic which will become more apparent in the summer, will become a huge reward. Just a thought.

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:46 pm

I also work almost every Satuday, so Sunday is the best day for me. I think we all want to make the best changes possible. We need to meet and come up with the holes that need to be changed and the holes we do not want to change, and go from there!
We all are on the same page but just need to come together to work on the changes.
I like the idea of working on one hole at a time, it makes sense!
Tim

dpj · Post by **dpj** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:38 am

Sunday A.M. works for me.
We need a plan for a work day.
We could start on hole 8 and 9. Hole 8 could go up the hill to old 7 pin.
Then we could use old hole 8 for 9.
Hole 6 can have (2) tee's and (2) pin positions.
We should have (2) tee's on every hole.
Existing tee signs should be for the short tee's.
There are alot of cut tree's and dead wood that need to be removed
from the new fairways, we don't need a work day for this. Just get out there and start dragging.

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:08 pm

I like the idea of changing 8 and 9...Creating 2 positions on every hole is something we should consider maybe in the Fall...It is a good idea to play the holes for a while to work out the tweaks before beginning new projects...I do think i is a good idea though....
Once the existing 18 has been put together as a good course we can look towards bringing it to the next level....

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Welcome, Mr. Jones!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think most people would like to change 8&9 to the way you suggest. Most people I see on the course are not thrilled with 8&9.
This will work out because we have such a great core of players.
Tim

Sjur Soleng · Post by **Sjur Soleng** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:31 pm

So the basket on hole 6..... I believe myself as well as some of the boys have Sunday off...We would like to move it to the anhyzer position...The new pad( i believe most people have seen the position), will play a anhyzer, slightly uphill, to the right. Easy transition to next hole, no flooding or path crossing, better hole. What do you think..It will only take a moment with 4 people working.

Bård Soleng · Post by **Bård Soleng** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:34 pm

I finally got a new labtop, now I must eat Ramen.....

This Sunday should be good for most of the crew. We can tackle 8+9 and take a good look at the next holes.

We must move 11 and 12 off the path. Its seems like with the city doing improvements there's going to be a lot of walkers and DOGS.

A couple of us found a potentially beautiful fairway. From 11's cage, walk past and left about 70 ft. Its basically totally clear. A rock wall lines the right side, slight downhill.

But first 8+9....So much to do.....

Ohh yeah #6 crosses a pretty frequently travelled walking path, its a little sketchy now and with foliagen it could be dangerous.

We need to have a meeting and put our heads together

prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnttt

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:51 am

What time are you planning on getting together? I was going to do a little work on the course anyway.
Tim