2010 womens team challenge.

[Kristi_Bayer]

Solbo...I might have screwed up with my statement reguarding 900 and open spots...sorry don't mean to miss quote. I think u get what I'm saying.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Wow! Should have considered an emoticon next to this statement....oh wait we don't have a caveman.......yet

Solbo was implying "player equivalent"

Hmmmmmmm how do I add these to the emoticon list?

[Kristi_Bayer]

Ok...I gotta go enjoy my snow day...in efforts to be part of the solution not part of the problem...I'd be willing to help out in the planning of a Women's Team Challenges for the future or for that matter Rules and Guidelines for Team Challenges period. Respectfully, Kristi Bayer

[Steve Solbo]

I think another potential answer is what Bill Dunne brought up and what I brought up earlier in the season and actually gave the OPTION for teams to do.. seems like teams forgot..

I said, "Teams can add a woman OR a player rated equal or lower than the highest rated woman in the league" would this not solve the issue? Teams didn't listen though.. AS USUAL.

I don't think it was ignored Solbo. Who wants to be labeled the team's "woman equivalent"?

Wow! Should have considered an emoticon next to this statement....oh wait we don't have a caveman.......yet

Solbo was implying "player equivalent"

I mentioned this earlier Matt, if we had a player as the "woman" equivalent, then women could be used however, Heather vs. Sjur, Sarah and Kary vs. Jason Dore and Gary Ellsworth, on and on. SOME Teams have paired up their women against males, Hell, Maple Hill has two women on their roster.

Men should "sack" up, who cares if your the "woman equivalent"? GROW UP!

[Erin Tivnan]

I would like to add my opinion on this thread.

I would love for a woman's team challenge to be formed, but I'm not sure there are enough women to form an entire league. If some teams are having trouble filling just one woman's spot, then how are we figuring we can start a whole new league? As I said, I am TOTALLY for playing all the women in the area, but we have been doing woman's league at Hodges for some time, and many of the 8-10 women that attend, don't all play during winter when the team challenges occur.


I am on Team Buff and would like to continue to participate in this league. I enjoy being apart of it, having the opportunity to go out and play match play on the same card as the guys, as well as playing mixed doubles. I have learned a lot. (Not that I haven't learned anything from the women as well )


This year I have seen a couple different scenarios where the women have been used. Ive played against the men, played against the women. Sat when there was a woman available to play, sat when there wasnt a woman to play.


I think the Team Challenge rules as they currently stand need to be revised. If guidelines where laid down, there wouldn't be so much controversy. Make it mandatory that every team has at least one woman player. I also believe they SHOULD be playing each other. Seems like teams have looked at the women as an easy win and tried to take advantage of the situation. If a woman player is not able to attend their challenge, leave it up to the team captains to do their pairings.


This is year one that women have been involved and you guys are all ready to give up. Make the few changes that are necessary and it should work.

Erin

[Todd Lapham]

How about a womens travelling tag challenge? Might be a good idea for the first year, then if enough women are involved they can form teams. They can piggy back off of the mens team challenges and just do their own thing.

Also, I agree win Erin. If women are to stay, there needs to be a set of guidelines just pertaining to them.

Having a "female equivalent" guy still solves nothing. If they're not able to play or have to sit out, we are in the same boat.

[Juano Flores]

We as captains need to be responsible for how our teams compete. I think it undermines what this league should be about when matchups are seen as an opportunity to pick the opposition off (ie. matching your worst player against their best). Captains should seek to provide the best quality pairings out of respect of their opponents. Nobody wants a nice lunch, only to be served a lopsided match.

[Mike Dussault]

Hear, hear!

[Kylie Hoke]

Erin, I agree with everything you said. Well done!

I am all for some sort of womens winter golf thing. But will admit that I have had a wonderful experience playing on Team Tolland. As a new player I have learned a lot and really will miss the winter golf experience when it is over. I am a competitive person and I love to win but also understand were I stand with the team. If I ever need to be sacraficed or sat I am okay with that. It is part of being a team and being low in the ranks. With that said, I have been lucky enough to not have a bad experience and understand where feelings could get hurt. I am for women being on the teams with the boys. But agree with the many who say rules need to be put in place. I think have 2 women on a team who play against each other would be fun. If one girl does not show and a team has to sit a female player or play them against a guy, so be it. It is all part of being on a team. Just my 2 cents. I have enjoyed the team challenge this year and would like to see the kinks worked out. If the women get something together I would be for that too. But if there are enough women willing to play to make a womens challenge then why arn't there enough women to say put one or two on a team, women go head to head unless the other team's woman is not there. In which case either sit or be sacraficed. Be interesting to say how this all pans out but either way I have had a lot of fun on Team Tolland and all the boys there have been nothing but supportive and respectful.

[LeftyhasRights]

Erin, I agree with everything you said. Well done!

I am all for some sort of womens winter golf thing. But will admit that I have had a wonderful experience playing on Team Tolland. As a new player I have learned a lot and really will miss the winter golf experience when it is over. I am a competitive person and I love to win but also understand were I stand with the team. If I ever need to be sacraficed or sat I am okay with that. It is part of being a team and being low in the ranks. With that said, I have been lucky enough to not have a bad experience and understand where feelings could get hurt. I am for women being on the teams with the boys. But agree with the many who say rules need to be put in place. I think have 2 women on a team who play against each other would be fun. If one girl does not show and a team has to sit a female player or play them against a guy, so be it. It is all part of being on a team. Just my 2 cents. I have enjoyed the team challenge this year and would like to see the kinks worked out. If the women get something together I would be for that too. But if there are enough women willing to play to make a womens challenge then why arn't there enough women to say put one or two on a team, women go head to head unless the other team's woman is not there. In which case either sit or be sacraficed. Be interesting to say how this all pans out but either way I have had a lot of fun on Team Tolland and all the boys there have been nothing but supportive and respectful.

Kylie you're awesome

[Leslie Charles]

Personally, I believe the team challenge has been great. I have had nothing but respect both from my teammates and opponents in the two years I have been involved.

Women's team challenge could be awesome in the future--yet, if played now, I'd be a rockin' team of one (1) representing Western Mass. It's a great idea. Let's strive for this (by encouraging more women to play ?). I also enjoy being out there with the masses, which happen to be men at this point in time.

This is the first year of adding women—let's work the kinks out. (Solbo, you can pm me for suggestions). I enjoy spending one day a month competing against others, men and women, as well as the camaraderie that happens with anybody crazy enough to spend a New England winter day outside for disc golf. If my captain ever tried "throw" a game by placing me, or anyone, against a big mismatch, then shame on her.

Only a few more months of winter!

[Bobby Cowperthwait]

I agree with ScoWpacK

[Matt Heenan]

if every team had 2 or 3 women this wouldn't be a problem and you can't force teams to carry them. Some areas don't have women that play. We currently have at least 3 teams without a woman

[Arty Graustein]

If there are enough women interested in the new league (and judging by Matt's posts there certainly appears to be), I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to "draft" three of them to the teams that don't have any. Drafting already seems to exist in this league anyway.

[Scott Howard]

I think the Team Challenge rules as they currently stand need to be revised. If guidelines where laid down, there wouldn't be so much controversy. Make it mandatory that every team has at least one woman player. I also believe they SHOULD be playing each other. Seems like teams have looked at the women as an easy win and tried to take advantage of the situation. If a woman player is not able to attend their challenge, leave it up to the team captains to do their pairings.


This is year one that women have been involved and you guys are all ready to give up. Make the few changes that are necessary and it should work.

Erin

How about a womens travelling tag challenge? Might be a good idea for the first year, then if enough women are involved they can form teams. They can piggy back off of the mens team challenges and just do their own thing.

I think the ladies are well ahead of you here

http://forums.nefa.com/viewtopic.php?t=3272&start=0

[Matt Heenan]

If there are enough women interested in the new league (and judging by Matt's posts there certainly appears to be), I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to "draft" three of them to the teams that don't have any. Drafting already seems to exist in this league anyway.

Not a bad idea arty, but it all comes back to the same problem. Do some of these women want to play for a team that could be 2 hrs away from them? Remember there is a reason bland, cran, nasa... don't have any women. There aren't any there

[Joe Yaskis]

I think this whole thing went sour when girls were forced to play another teams best player. Obviously a strategic move. Captains are to blame for this.

This type of strategy only hurts the team challenge "FUN" aspect.

I believe girls should play girls, MO.

Simple solution, create a league for women. They dont have to have 12 players, why not 5 or 6. Make it small.

5 years ago there were 6 teams in the Challenge series, 10 total people on a team. Each year it has gotten bigger and better.

Do girls play on the Pats, Red Sox, or Bruins?

No they have their own leagues.

I'm with Buttons and Bobby C. I love to compete. If you want to have fun play with the newbies.

[Titan Bariloni]

A girls team challenge is a good idea. Lets not let this dye

Its not about them playing with the guys...its just a great idea that should be given some time and thought to get off the ground.

Tully-Rockettes IN

The team will be ready to crush any and all opposition

[Arty Graustein]

Not a bad idea arty, but it all comes back to the same problem. Do some of these women want to play for a team that could be 2 hrs away from them? Remember there is a reason bland, cran, nasa... don't have any women. There aren't any there

I hear ya Matt. I guess we won't know until the question is asked. Keep in mind two out of the three matches is an away match and a third is at a neutral site. Who's to say some of these wouldn't go down closer to their residence. Pretty sure Solbo doesn't live on the Cape anymore , yet he stills plays for Burgess. Where does Fab reside? Tserpes plays for NASA and he lives in Cummaquid (on the Cape for those not in the know). Its a good 2 hours+ from Pye. I'm sure there are plenty of others with a similar scenario. What I'm saying is I think its feasible. If women want to be included I don't see travelling being a major hurdle.

[Steve Solbo]

Not a bad idea arty, but it all comes back to the same problem. Do some of these women want to play for a team that could be 2 hrs away from them? Remember there is a reason bland, cran, nasa... don't have any women. There aren't any there

I hear ya Matt. I guess we won't know until the question is asked. Keep in mind two out of the three matches is an away match and a third is at a neutral site. Who's to say some of these wouldn't go down closer to their residence. Pretty sure Solbo doesn't live on the Cape anymore , yet he stills plays for Burgess. Where does Fab reside? Tserpes plays for NASA and he lives in Cummaquid (on the Cape for those not in the know). Its a good 2 hours+ from Pye. I'm sure there are plenty of others with a similar scenario. What I'm saying is I think its feasible. If women want to be included I don't see travelling being a major hurdle.

Im 30 minutes from Burgess. Fab is a boat ride, he's on the Vineyard. We've asked John time and time again to come home to Burgess to no avail.

[Arty Graustein]

So travelling is not a major hurdle for you then?

[Ken Gary]

Thought I would throw in a couple of ideas regarding women and team Challenge. These suggestions support inclusion of women in the Team Challenge and try to maintain the competitiveness and fun aspects of Team Challenge.

Sounds like there may be some discontent that adding women to the roster reduces the competitiveness of play. If so, I hope that these options deal with that.



Option 1 -

Change the definitions of the two pools to be Pool A Open and Pool B Co-ed. Pool A has no requirement for inclusion of women. Women may be on the roster and play as any other player.

Pool B has a requirement to include 1 or 2 women on the roster. Women must play other women in singles. If both teams have 2 women, they also play as a doubles team unless captains agree to play co-ed team doubles prior to the start of the day.

Possibly add that if one team shows up with less than the minimum number of women (1 or 2) and the other team has the minimum, the team without the full set automatically lose the points for that match.

Option 2 –

Keep the Pool structure as it is today. Teams are required to play at least one women per challenge. Women must play women in singles. If one team shows up with a women and the other team does not have a women, the team without a women forfeits that match. The match would then still be played where the team without a women would still need to use one of their male players.

Another idea is that when a women plays a man if she wins her team gets a point. If she loses the man’s team receives zero points.

Just some ideas.

[Jeni Desrosiers]

I thought this thread was about the potential of forming a challenge for women?

[Matt Heenan]

I thought this thread was about the potential of forming a challenge for women?

Word. Well folks take it or leave it. I'm trying solve a problem. Problem with NEFA is there's a million opinions and a bunch of talk. Unfortunately too few people take the bull by the horns and change it.
So here it is, I am planning on assisting in getting a womens team challenge league going. DON'T play if you don't want to! This is America do what you want. I have heard alot of women that would be interested. So I need a captain from Tully Rock, CMASS, and hopefully CT. (Kristi Bayer). The plan is to start in Oct. just like the men. Captains step up and begin recruiting. We have plenty of time and rosters will not be due until sept. Again please don't fill up my thread with a million different ideas on what should be done blah blah blah. We're going forward with this and trying to get it done instead of jiber jabbing for months. Women interested, we are now on you to be captains and start recruiting.

[Joe Yaskis]

Right on!

Girls unite!

[Mark Valis]

Why not let the woman either just split in to 2 Teams based upon proximity or why not start there on version of the Earl Cup (Conn v. Ma.) I am sure the following woman would be interested:

Jenilee
Tara Chenevert
Nikki King
Kylie
Amy Streeter
Erin Tivnan
Wendy Boutin
Katie Thompson
Kate Streeter
Heather Ng
Kristi Bear
Tully Rock Girls (4) I believe
Michelle Smith
Erica Hulme

It seems like more people I trying to figure out how to make the current format work . The Woman want their own Team Challenge so let's do as Matt suggested and help figure out how to get them started. It's not like they will need our help with the scheduling they could always piggybank any Team Challenge that was in the area or plan their own dates.

The woman want to compete and WIN just as much as we do IMO!

[Jeni Desrosiers]

Nice sure how accurate that list is but there are a handful of people

[Maureen McErlin]

I thought this thread was about the potential of forming a challenge for women?

Word. Well folks take it or leave it. I'm trying solve a problem. Problem with NEFA is there's a million opinions and a bunch of talk. Unfortunately too few people take the bull by the horns and change it.

dude, chill it out.

people are trying to solve the underlying problem: inclusion of women in the regular team challenge environment.

it seems to go along nicely with your proposed idea of a women's challenge league. maybe we'll work on setting up another thread for rules around women playing in the regular men's league.

titan - good effort with the spotty capitalization. need to work more on the grammar
erin - you have gained 17 points in my book. great post. #65 above.
edit: http://forums.nefa.com/viewtopic.php?p=165116#165116
kbct for president!

[Steve Solbo]

Team Buff spearheading this effort! Nice to see guys.

We'll see what happens, but I'd like to see the women around on challenge days still, just a question of how to make it work.

[Nicky King]

erin - you have gained 17 points in my book. great post.

2nd

Can't wait for Hodges league to start back up again!