UMass Amhert course in close to installation!

[Bill Stewart]

http://www.umass.edu/af/budget/Budget_Office_Data_Statistics.htm

http://www.umass.edu/af/budget/FY12/FY12-operating-budget--revenue-expenditures.pdf

yeah pay to play crushes those kind of numbers

http://www.umass.edu/af/budget/FY12/FY12-operating-budget--current-revenues.pdf

2012 "private gifts" 10,769,736

but they are broke

Yeah, but what kind of education do pay to play courses offer?

[Titan Bariloni]

naw more like you speak out of your arse..accuse others of doing same thing....when they prove you wrong same MO...you deflect by saying they deflect

sorry andrew conversations and topics have many different directions..try to keep up

Bill..I am disappointed..many course owners offer educational programs..a day with JayWick is like earning your masters degree

[Titan Bariloni]

back to the issue 1500 for signs?

really though..maybe nefa should start a sign company and make money from all the grants given out for signs....signs pfffff

[Brian Giggey]

NEFA isn't buying our baskets, we have that part figured out. NEFA has given us a grant though, and the majority of it will be used on signage to make this course the educational platform that it should be.

words like "I don't care about safety,I tell people I design the course and then your on your own if anything happens" is a joke..course design 101 should have safety in the front part of the picture...if we have people putting in unsafe courses it is unproductive for DG....and I question if it smart to attach nefa's name to a designer with lil regard for safetey...as nefa has had issues in past with their name on a kiosk!!! but that is a nefa issue..one that should make sure the BOD has things in place to ensure when their name is on it..the course will be REP them well..having your name on something is not always a good thing...a team that "explores" these grant sites is important IMO...

When did I ever say I wasn't about safety? I studied Landscape Architecture for years...it's all about safety. You think I would receive my Master's in this if I didn't understand this SIMPLE concept? Come on. If you don't have safety, you don't have anything. The main reason we get so many course bids (we just got one this morning actually) is cause our focus on safety. This is absurd that you even say it.

If I ever said anything in respect to "people being on their own," its insurance. We don't provide insurance for courses (we do for our Mobiles, though), but we do put insurance information/recommendations in our site specific packets during the process, so the courses can have all the information at hand to make the proper decision.

Sorry if you don't like what we do, Titan, but we are buttoned up when we do course design. We do a thorough site analysis and safety is our main concern the entire time throughout the design process, so please don't make it seem like it isn't.

The $1500 isn't earmarked for signs alone. Some will go towards it, but I guess that's up for myself and the UMass RSO to decide. It won't be wasted money, this course is going to be professionally presented to the public.

And I don't take any insult to your Master's Degree comment. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done, and have been rewarded by getting some incredible disc golf and non-disc golf related projects. I wish you the best.

Respectfully,
Brian

[Andrew McManus]

naw more like you speak out of your arse..accuse others of doing same thing....when they prove you wrong same MO...you deflect by saying they deflect

sorry andrew conversations and topics have many different directions..try to keep up

Nice retort, the only problem is that you haven't proven me wrong, you just kept on deflecting. If asking for actual facts is talking out my arse, then so be it, I'm an arse talker. Reality can be fun and educational Titan, try joining it.

[Titan Bariloni]

what am I suppose to prove you wrong at exactly again andrew?

save your time..IDC

Brian GL

[Travis Reed]

and to further break down the how is DG going to make Umass $$$

pay to play vs Umass

1 person comes to pay to play course=$10 bucks for the day
1 person comes to Umass because of DG for a 4 year plan=80K

hmmmm...and please don't say 1 person could not chose Umass cuz of DG..that is just unrealistic math..if you can't admit that even ONE person would chose Umass because they have DG..you sir are living in a conspiracy theory that DG has not blown up

This doesn't make sense on so many levels. Beyond the fact that UMass is technically a state-funded, not for profit, government agency, not some 'megabusiness' that is raking in profit, the system just doesn't work this way. The university isn't profiting $80k from every student that attends, hardly, most of that money goes to running the other buildings and operations on campus, most of which are much more vital to the school than a disc golf course, so the administration is not going to be quick to prioritize this project. They put a lot of resources towards figuring out which old buildings need to be torn down and/or replaced, something much more important to their goal of maintaining a reputable institution of higher education than fringe recreational facilities. The campus is constantly under construction, it isn't surprising that this project has never seemed urgent to the university 'big wigs.'

so yes free to public..maybe..who is to say they don't say only students/workers..need an ID card to play...they could and prob will as I don't see them letting the general public just stomp on their campus..is this pre written that it is open to public?

And this makes me wonder if you've ever even been to/seen the campus/proposed course location. This is a state school, there are already 30,000 members of the 'general public' stomping around it all day every day. The 2 1/4 square mile campus is pretty much entirely open to the public except for the dining halls and rec center, it would be next to impossible to try to monitor the course to make it private given the layout of the holes and the fact that many of the areas are already used often by other groups.

Probably should've just let this argument die, felt like adding my $ .02. I can't wait to see the UMass course finally go in, the land is awesome terrain for a course and from following Giggey's social media I can say he has always seemed dedicated to moving this project forward and getting this course in the ground.

[Titan Bariloni]

This doesn't make sense on so many levels. Beyond the fact that UMass is technically a state-funded, not for profit, government agency, not some 'megabusiness' that is raking in profit,

they still make plenty of profit...regardless of where it goes..the profit is there

obv they don't profit 80k per student as they have over head..the point they have more then a pay to play DG course and if they wanted could afford the full cost of a DG course and it would be like throwing 2 cents in a bucket

yes you are right they do spend money all day every day on fixing/repairing buildings and building new ones..I have worked on a few myself..

and never said it would be easy to check SID's or that they would..I simply asked if it was discussed..it was apparently and will be open to public...

the point this project does not need 1500 from nefa tied up for 1 1/2 years until they decide to give DG a go...then the money is semi earmarked for tee signs...lol IMO

it is not up to Umass and Giggey to decide what the money goes to..it is up to the grant proposal submitted and what was described in the grant..if not then why write a proposal detailing info?


sometimes people are to literal...if people can't admit Umass has 5k kicking around then...lol

[Dan Hale]

I think it is about time to move this thread to the "yeah right" or "purgatory" section....is anyone else sick of reading about zero progress and wasted NEFA money....personally I am still not impressed with EDG or whatever they are calling it now....i also saw a fb page about a UMASS disc golf team....wtf....where are they going to play.......

I dont understand why the EDGers and the Pure F-ers and the student team can't get their act together and demonstrate to the powers that be that a DG course would be a home run....or an ACE....in addition it would provide a venue for all the students majoring in landscape design, turf management, arborculture/horticulture etc. to practice their field of study....

[Andrew McManus]

what am I suppose to prove you wrong at exactly again andrew?

save your time..IDC

Brian GL

I honestly don't know anymore...your powers of diversion are simply overwhelming

[Brian Giggey]

I think it is about time to move this thread to the "yeah right" or "purgatory" section....is anyone else sick of reading about zero progress and wasted NEFA money....personally I am still not impressed with EDG or whatever they are calling it now....i also saw a fb page about a UMASS disc golf team....wtf....where are they going to play.......

I dont understand why the EDGers and the Pure F-ers and the student team can't get their act together and demonstrate to the powers that be that a DG course would be a home run....or an ACE....in addition it would provide a venue for all the students majoring in landscape design, turf management, arborculture/horticulture etc. to practice their field of study....

We're trying our best, I just can't stress enough how ridiculous it is to get all these people in a meeting at once. I have shown them how great the sport is, but they need to get EVERYONE together for approvals and that's not the easiest thing in the world. You are right, it would be wonderful platform for other students, but the University needs to see it all come together first. I approached them with setting up 8 holes (on southern side of Eastman lane), but they still can't get a meeting to get the approvals for it.

Just don't think we aren't trying. We have almost reached final approvals at Sugarloaf in Maine after only 5 months --- they are sinking 4 baskets to hold over the locals as speak. We do a find job of translating information to the clients we work with, but UMass is massive and we can only do what they allow us to do.

In terms of having a UMass Amherst Disc Golf Club, that's exactly what needs to happen. No, they don't have a course, but UMass needs to SEE that people will use it and that there is interest. Two people on the meeting boards have worked at Universities with disc golf courses, and the majority of all the other people know what it is, but getting it in the ground at a massive governmental organization is time consuming.

Sorry if the lack of progress is bothersome to some of the NEFA community, but we will continue to plug away on this monster, and eventually it will go in when it's time. Until then, there are plenty of courses in the area for people to play and enjoy.

I think I'll give this thread a break for a while for the time being, we have 4 weekends in a row with our Mobile Disc Golf Experience --- MA, MA, ME, VA --- so we're going to get ready for that.

[Titan Bariloni]

it is simple

involve $$$ and people are gonna be asking questions..never fails really

this is not about the course time frame really or big wigs or anything else personal or not..it is about the $$$$$$$$

I understand the idea of hey we have money so it makes us look legit and serious..blah blah

when ya have funds from charitable contributions mostly from places that relatively have lil money they are usually watched that much more closely

this to me as is more of a grant flaw/nefa issue..it makes no sense to ship 1500 for a project so far away and just causes this BS really and puts constant pressure on grant applicant to meet that deadline..and to me is nefa to leave it up to people to find the best bargain for said materials/items in grant...nefa might be able to get a solid connection for tee signs,baskets,ect ect why not? Nefa is a DG force nation wide..the name nefa is well respected and known throughout the DG community...I would think some pull for deals to further promote DG in this relatively new to DG region..at least compared to most regions of the country..would be easy to get done with a few emails/calls

andrew sorry for a thread drift again....usually discussions bring ideas

[Travis Reed]

I think it is about time to move this thread to the "yeah right" or "purgatory" section....is anyone else sick of reading about zero progress and wasted NEFA money....personally I am still not impressed with EDG or whatever they are calling it now....i also saw a fb page about a UMASS disc golf team....wtf....where are they going to play.......

I dont understand why the EDGers and the Pure F-ers and the student team can't get their act together and demonstrate to the powers that be that a DG course would be a home run....or an ACE....in addition it would provide a venue for all the students majoring in landscape design, turf management, arborculture/horticulture etc. to practice their field of study....

I agree with Dan here, this thread probably should be moved. I know I'm pretty sick of reading baseless attacks from people with little to no knowledge of the situation, process, or the people involved.

The student team will probably get their act together a little more after they're done competing in the Northeastern Collegiate DG Championship next weekend in Pennsylvania. Also, if you paid closer attention to the FB pages of related groups, you would know that forming a competitive club team was actually one of the University's criteria for the disc golfers getting their act together and demonstrating that there is support on campus for a course. You seem to think that effort is more deserving of mockery than support...wtf?!?

[Titan Bariloni]

Ummm...don't act like people don't already know simple things

[Chance Strom]

This thread has become ridiculous.
Thanks for your efforts Brian, really lookin forward to a course in Amherst.
I can only imagine the red tape.

And remember, the dreams of the ambitious are the nightmares of haters.

I'll look forward to more updates.

[Chris Querengasser]

This is hilarious. So apparently all of Umass' money is supposed to go to a disc course and not their teachers or resident life once someone decides to put a course there. My girlfriend graduated from umass Amherst last year and was there for three years after transferring from Simmons and was an RA for two years so I spent a lot of time on that campus as a non student just walking around looking for stuff to do while she worked as an RA (to kind of squash the whole umass won't be fine with non students walking around campus. I can guarantee you that students cause more damage to the campus than visitors). I also noticed a lack of alternative activities which I think disc golf would be a perfect filler for that void. And if you honestly think umass or anyone would look at a disc golf course going in as "profit" you haven't the first idea as to how universities and tuitions work.

[Andrew McManus]

This is hilarious. So apparently all of Umass' money is supposed to go to a disc course and not their teachers or resident life once someone decides to put a course there. My girlfriend graduated from umass Amherst last year and was there for three years after transferring from Simmons and was an RA for two years so I spent a lot of time on that campus as a non student just walking around looking for stuff to do while she worked as an RA (to kind of squash the whole umass won't be fine with non students walking around campus. I can guarantee you that students cause more damage to the campus than visitors). I also noticed a lack of alternative activities which I think disc golf would be a perfect filler for that void. And if you honestly think umass or anyone would look at a disc golf course going in as "profit" you haven't the first idea as to how universities and tuitions work.

Thank you!! Sometimes the voice of reason is smothered by the roar of the rabble rouser.

[Troy Dietrich]

It's just that it's a bit odd that you would apply for a grant before you've even received the approval to install the course. But whatever, what's done is done. As I recall you have to 24 months from the receipt of the funds to use it or you have to return that money back to NEFA. I can't wait for the course to go in, and I hope you get it done in time so that you can use the money. Otherwise it'll go back to NEFA, and they can put it to use elsewhere.

I don't see this as THAT big of a deal...except that there are other courses out there that could have used that money now, while you're sitting with it in limbo.

[Derek Brazauskas]

It's just that it's a bit odd that you would apply for a grant before you've even received the approval to install the course. But whatever, what's done is done. As I recall you have to 24 months from the receipt of the funds to use it or you have to return that money back to NEFA. I can't wait for the course to go in, and I hope you get it done in time so that you can use the money. Otherwise it'll go back to NEFA, and they can put it to use elsewhere.

I don't see this as THAT big of a deal...except that there are other courses out there that could have used that money now, while you're sitting with it in limbo.

That's all..

[Titan Bariloni]

The point why does this project need 1500 from nefa right now..?

If explore is to donate grants as they said they would decided upon by dgers..why not just keep their own money for this project? Why all this fundraising and not even one basket installed anywhere


For all you idiots who can't seem to understand the point it is not about profit it is about the fact that 1500 is nothing to umass..and doubt the makes or breaks the project....umass can afford a dg course if they wanted..simple as that

I can't wait until truths are exposed...

[Andrew McManus]

For all you idiots who can't seem to understand the point it is not about profit it is about the fact that 1500 is nothing to umass..and doubt the makes or breaks the project....umass can afford a dg course if they wanted..simple as that

I can't wait until truths are exposed...

The grant was applied for by an outside party unaffiliated with the university. The university is open to having a dg course established on their land and here you are demanding that they pay for it because they have enough money at their disposal ($1500 is a drop in the bucket, blah, blah, blah). I would think that getting permission to use the land is far and away the biggest hurdle. NEFA will get the grant $$ back if the $$ isn't spent by NEFA's grant deadline.

While I sympathize with the issues raised over how the grant was awarded to an applicant that has no baskets in the ground, the bottom line is that there will be 1 of 2 possible outcomes:

1) there will be a dg course at UMass for the public to enjoy
2) there won't be a dg course at UMass and NEFA will get the grant $$ back

Even an idiot can understand that.

Sorry to burst your bubble Titan, but if you're waiting for your day of vindication when the "truth" is exposed, its gonna be a long wait because there is no secrecy here...its all out in the open

[Isaac Chaney]

I think what titan is so nonchalantly trying to say, is that in theory, as far as anyone is concerned, the money could have been spent on who knows what at this point. The main concern of the people is, that money could have been used elsewhere, and most likely that money that could have been used on another course would have been spent already. Sure, they say if they dont meet the required deadline, they can give the money back. But how do we know the money has not been used by that point(entitlement fees), we dont. It could be they're own money there using to pay back, who knows, or maybe they are honest people and it really is NEFA's original grant. The thing is, we will never know. What NEFA can do though, is control the situation in a positive way with Grant reform. The people of NEFA should know that they're little chunk of change that makes these grants possible is being used in a ON the course, and in a timely matter. If its going to take you 2 years to uses a grant, sorry, you dont desreve that grant. Really, it should be 1 year max, and I personally think thats even pushing it. Everyone who makes up the important people of NEFA are volunteers. So we should know in confidence that grant money isnt subject to "entitlement fees" because once again, your all supposed to be volunteers.

[Derek Brazauskas]

I agree 100% with what Issac said.. Why can't this be settled by just giving the grant money back now, and when the course is actually ''close to installation'' Umass can then have that years grant. Sounds like a way to make this whole situation right. The money will still be there when and if you need it and a course that could use it now benefits.. Win Win right?

[Andrew McManus]

I also agree with Isaac and that's why the NEFA BOD is currently reviewing my submittal for a complete overhaul of the grant application, including much shorter deadlines and much more culpability, accountability and responsibility. Its an actual application form with clear and concise language instead of a list of guidelines

IMO, I don't think NEFA's going to get screwed over here, but I do understand the concern. Considering the transparency of what's transpired, there's no legit reason to demand the $$ back...what's done is done and the process will be corrected in short time so that this does not happen again.

[Derek Brazauskas]

I also agree with Isaac and that's why the NEFA BOD is currently reviewing my submittal for a complete overhaul of the grant application, including much shorter deadlines and much more culpability, accountability and responsibility. Its an actual application form with clear and concise language instead of a list of guidelines

IMO, I don't think NEFA's going to get screwed over here, but I do understand the concern. Considering the transparency of what's transpired, there's no legit reason to demand the $$ back...what's done is done and the process will be corrected in short time so that this does not happen again.

I don't feel like NEFA is going to get screwed either, but if EDG is about growing the sport and has the money put aside in an account wouldn't it be smart to give it to a course in need now? under the agreement that when Umass goes in EDG gets the grant money then.. The only one getting screwed are the courses that can't use the grant money now because it's in limbo.. Maybe it just makes to much sense.. Andrew i agree and hope your reformat of the grant process goes through..

[Titan Bariloni]

Sounds good Andrew

Correct icu

Why not just ship it back for now?

Nefa ship me 9 baskets and we have a new course tomorrow

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Why does it sound like Brian is being considered untrustworthy? Am i mis-reading this?

But how do we know the money has not been used by that point(entitlement fees), we dont. It could be they're own money there using to pay back, who knows, or maybe they are honest people and it really is NEFA's original grant. The thing is, we will never know.

He's posted this twice already.......

1.) The large grant is sitting in a completely separate bank account. If, for some reason the course doesn't go in within 18 months (the guideline set by NEFA), we will return the money.

I know that i'm the NY Rep and this is a Mass issue but I see this guy busting azz to get a course in the ground and people are questioning his integrity because the approval and installation is hitting a few roadblocks. Someone even made a reference(to me via text) like he's gonna pull a Fred Doot and vanish with the cash.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Why not just ship it back for now?

Nefa ship me 9 baskets and we have a new course tomorrow

Because we awarded them a grant with certain stipulations and we need to hold to them. Changing the rules midway thru would be really lame.

Changing the grant rules for future offers is OK.

[Titan Bariloni]

Public opinion

Maybe explore should change that

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Public opinion

Maybe explore should change that

Ahhhhhh I see, i'm not that well informed of the current public opinion of Explore.