TEAM CHALLENGE SCHEDULE 2007-2008

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:11 pm

Matt S

Are you the captain?

One player can not play and have their score count for doubles or triples. They can throw one shot per hole for CTP's though.

I think this answers your question. If not can somebody answer his question. Thanks

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:14 pm

jack wrote:I just want to point out a couple things that concern me with whats happening with the TEAM Challenge.

First and foremost, the competition amongst the TEAMs is great. Alot of people from all over NEFA land have come together to make this whole thing what it is and to me its just plain fun.

Second, with the current size rosters there is a lot of money generated per team and paying out the regular season winner is a great incentive for each team to strive for. But, using the rest of the money for CTP prizes to me is a waste . Where is the TEAM incentive, CTP's are for individual accomplishment not TEAM. Personally, I do enjoy cash CTP's but $1,400 worth? Couldn't we have gotten a little more creative with this?
Maybe a $50 CTP on every hole ($900 worth)for the duration of the day, then the rest for the top 2-3 teams in the finals?

Third, I have been involved (playing) with this since Joe thought of it. We have fumbled our way through tweeking here and there to make this a valid organized effort but when does the tweeking stop. I most definately understand that this tie breaker thing needs to be figured out. It is a tough pill to swallow when your teams only loss was by a single stroke in a playoff and your sitting third under another TEAM you never played.

We are all involved with something that is rapidly evolving so lets not over think things. I am afraid that this may end up turning people away then gaining more in the long run.

Next year I plan on awarding ATLEAST $500 to the winning team.

Matt DeAngelis · Post by **Matt DeAngelis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:15 pm

yaskis wrote:Matt S

Are you the captain?

One player can not play and have their score count for doubles or triples. They can throw one shot per hole for CTP's though.

I think this answers your question. If not can somebody answer his question. Thanks

You are so sensitive...try some cranberry juice to help with the cramps.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:17 pm

Bobby D wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
yaskis wrote:Solbo, no one cares about Burgess except Burgess.

Buffumville is America's Team.

Well, everyone better care about Burgess, cuse we are in the drivers seat looking at Buff in the rearview mirror.

Thats what happens when you play easy teams! Played one tough team and look what happen? Oww ya lost to Maple.

Hmm. Let's look at this logically.

We beat a 3-2 Borderland Team @ their place
We beat a 4-1 Buff Team
We beat a 2-3 NASA Team @ their place
We beat a 0-5 Devens Team
We lost to a 3-2 Maple Hill Team by one stroke at a course across the street from their home course, which is owned by one of their top players, and their players see it a whole HELL of a lot more than us.

that's a combined record of 12-13

Buff beat an 0-5 Devens Team
Buff beat an 0-5 Tolland Team
Buff beat an 4-1 Wick Team
Buff beat an 3-2 Maple Hill Team
Buff LOST to a 4-1 Burgess Team

That's a combined record of 11-14

I would say our schedule was tougher than yours.

But that's what happens when you look at things logically.

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:17 pm

Matt can I have a pre reg update for the Minuteman? aka Matt D

and are we playing best disc doubles or what?

Matt DeAngelis · Post by **Matt DeAngelis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:18 pm

yaskis wrote:Matt can I have a pre reg update for the Minuteman? aka Matt D

and are we playing best disc doubles or what?

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:39 pm

yaskis wrote:Matt S

Are you the captain?

One player can not play and have their score count for doubles or triples. They can throw one shot per hole for CTP's though.

I think this answers your question. If not can somebody answer his question. Thanks

No I am not a captain. I will ask my captain to let me be the odd guy out so that I can just throw for a CTP on every hole with no concern for score. Sounds like a fun round. :roll:

Jack Nickel · Post by **Jack Nickel** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:55 pm

One more rant and I'm done.
Ranking TEAMs for the finals is pointless. Everyone should start even. How many other sports go into the playoffs/championships with a huge amount of strokes/points against them? Yeah there are the wildcards the low seeds but they all have a fair chance of winning. Its like saying the Patriots should have gone into the playoffs and all the TEAMs playing against them would start 1,2,3 touchdowns back and then have to overcome that just to compete.
TEAMs like Tolland and Devens are 7 strokes behind the top seed? Talk about sucking the life outta the tournament. Now all emphasis is on getting a CTP instead of playing for the overall win. This is apparently effecting others approach to finals as well.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:28 pm

jack wrote:One more rant and I'm done.
Ranking TEAMs for the finals is pointless. Everyone should start even. How many other sports go into the playoffs/championships with a huge amount of strokes/points against them? Yeah there are the wildcards the low seeds but they all have a fair chance of winning. Its like saying the Patriots should have gone into the playoffs and all the TEAMs playing against them would start 1,2,3 touchdowns back and then have to overcome that just to compete.
TEAMs like Tolland and Devens are 7 strokes behind the top seed? Talk about sucking the life outta the tournament. Now all emphasis is on getting a CTP instead of playing for the overall win. This is apparently effecting others approach to finals as well.

Point taken.

Next year, I think the approach will differ.

Will we eliminate starting teams back? I dont know yet.

However, I can tell you.. that maybe a tiered system would work... b/c there is no logical reason to start everyone even, what then is the purpose of the regular season, the patriots do recieve homefield advantage... a slight advantage at best.. or is it? In disc golf, at this level, regionally, I think homefield in the finals is like giving the opponent a 1 or 2 TD deficit.. where as in disc, I think teams that are close in talent are much more likely to overcome 1 or 2 strokes, rather than playing on some other teams home course...

but that's my opinion. I can tell you Jack, that his will likely change next year too.. maybe more or a tiered system where top 3 seed start even, 2nd tier 1 back, 3rd tier 2 back.. or something to that effect, with the top team being able to select venue.... except their home course, of course.

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:24 pm

Jack

I understand your thought and concerns.

It is very difficult to satisfy all and I hope Solbo can do a better job than I have done.

It is a league that has been based on every one's thoughts and ideas and I'm sure it will continue to be that way.

The stroke defecits were set a while back. I would like to see the fifth place team come back and win this thing. Who knows it may very well happen.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:30 pm

And take nothing away from Joe, b/c without him, none of this would even be occuring, it's hard to build from the ground up.

Everyone has their ideas about how this thing should be run, I think it's a good idea to have rotating commissioners until we get a mix that everyone is happy with, hopefully I can do a good job and bring this league to the next level.

LeftyhasRights · Post by **LeftyhasRights** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:13 pm

Where does Tolland start the finals? + 7 or 6?

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:16 pm

Leftyhasrights wrote:Where does Tolland start the finals? + 7 or 6?

6

Pete Tolvanen · Post by **Pete Tolvanen** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:42 pm

So if you can't have a shorthanded team play at all what happens in the following:

A member of a doubles team forgets to bring something important like a barbeque and heads home to get it. He shows up 5 minutes late to the start of the 1st round during the finals (doubles round).

Can his partner start throwing as a single-player team until the aforementioned late player arrives or are they disqualified from that 'teams' score counting? What if his partner waited the prescribed 30 seconds before making his own thow - ie allowing for a phantom throw by his partner that is subsequently 'discarded' so there is no possibility of a cali?

I too am not getting the rational for baring teams that shows up with other then 6 or 12 players from those 'odd' guys having the opportunity to play a meaningful round. They may not throw as well as a well-crafted 3-man team but why not give them the opportunity to try?

Mike Dussault · Post by **Mike Dussault** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:39 pm

Hey Pete,
Lets not try to get rational. Yours is not to question why, yours is just to do or die. Enough said. Shut up and throw CTP's.

glassdisc · Post by **glassdisc** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:39 pm

I think the only way for team challenges to be fair is if everyone plays against each other. We could schedule most challenges by 4 weeks apart and randomly have 3 weeks apart between 2 challenges to accomodate the extra challenges.

We should set out a set schedule at the begining of the winter (like we do on nefa page for tournaments). Sometimes you can make it and sometimes you can't. All teams will be forced to play on the set scheduled day (like any NEFA tournament) or forfeit.

I mean how else can we determine a who is the best if we don't even get a chance to play the other teams.

We raise the prize amount up for 1st place and deduct or lower some of the CTP's to cover the 1st place increase.

Some ranting.......just thoughts

Matt DeAngelis · Post by **Matt DeAngelis** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:22 pm

mike d wrote:Hey Pete,
Lets not try to get rational. Yours is not to question why, yours is just to do or die. Enough said. Shut up and throw CTP's.

Well put Mike. :wink:

But seriously, good points Pete, you are starting to make too much sense here.

Jack Nickel · Post by **Jack Nickel** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:45 pm

Thanks for the responses.
My rants are in no way meant to be a slam on anyone, especially Big Joe.
This TEAM challenge thing is a blast. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
My concerns are only for the full enjoyment for all.
Peace and see everyone soon.

Rob Tatro · Post by **Rob Tatro** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:04 pm

PeteT wrote:I too am not getting the rational for baring teams that shows up with other then 6 or 12 players from those 'odd' guys having the opportunity to play a meaningful round. They may not throw as well as a well-crafted 3-man team but why not give them the opportunity to try?

Agreed Pete ... it will happen. Some team will come with a number not divisible by 2 and/or 3. With all due respect, I don't understand the rational either but then again, the rational has not really been explained??

If a team has 10 players show up, why can't they field 5 doubles teams for the doubles round and then during the triples round, send out 3 triples teams and send out a single to try and outscore the trip teams (not cali either - straight up). The chances are slim to almost none that the single player will be able to outshoot the trip teams but if they do, well then hell yea they deserve to have their score count for their team ... no?

Mike Dussault · Post by **Mike Dussault** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:12 pm

If a team shows up with 8 guys they can field 4 doubles teams. They should be allowed to put up two trip teams and a doubles team in round two. If the doubles team can outscore a triple team that score should count for something. :scratch:

Shaun LaForce · Post by **Shaun LaForce** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:13 pm

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:15 am

I'm going to have to disagree with team Borderlands. Here is why: this FINAL, is a team challenge where all members have been encouraged to show up. A team consists of golfers, not one golfer. The format is doubles, then triples, not singles then singles again.

If a golfer, or golfers, show up late and the group has teed off they will be stroked because of past practice, ie Buff vs Borderlands. If they are late because they went back and got a grill for everyone to eat on....................guess what? That group is still stroked.

Everyone has known about the final date know for well over 4 months. Bring all players from your TEAM and this will not be an issue. If four months is not enough notice, then I next year Solbo could give maybe five months notice for the finals? :arrow:

The odd guy out can blame his team for not bringing enough players. He does have the opportunity to throw at CTP's, but that is stuiped? Come on! The ODD MAN is not sitting on the bench saying "Go team". They are actually part of the action, but then again that is stuiped :roll:

As the TD, these are the rules. I hate the 2 meter rule, but let it go a tourneys that have it in play because it is a rule for that day.

Matt D you have 5 minutes to respond to this post.

Joe Yaskis · Post by **Joe Yaskis** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:59 am

One more point and then I'm threw.

At ice bowls, which are usually best disc doubles format, can a team of one show up and play against teams of two? At the Buff Icebowl I saw no teams of one, which was a doubles event.

Will there be a doubles team consisting of one person at Borderlands this Saturday?

NO-

See you tommorow

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:35 am

Thank you for the explanation Joe. I do see where you are coming from.

There is no point in bring a seventh or an 11th team member other than to throw CTPs and if you bring 8, 9, or 10, someones scores will not count for one of the rounds.

Knowing about an event 4 months in advance by no means guarantees that 12/12 will be able to show.

Todd Lapham · Post by **Todd Lapham** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:03 am

Bobby D wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
yaskis wrote:Solbo, no one cares about Burgess except Burgess.

Buffumville is America's Team.

Well, everyone better care about Burgess, cuse we are in the drivers seat looking at Buff in the rearview mirror.

Thats what happens when you play easy teams! Played one tough team and look what happen? Oww ya lost to Maple.

I'm pretty sure we played you guys, right? So you're saying Buff isn't a tough team? Might want to think before you post. Also, we had a harder schedule than you, no offense to Devens and Tolland, but you played both the "bottom dwellers" and we only played one. Oh yeah, and we lost to MH at Pyramids in OT. You barely beat them at home. :shock:

Mike Dussault · Post by **Mike Dussault** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:32 am

I certainly hear you Joe, but I whole heartedly disagree. If I asked Matt if I could show up without a partner, pay the full entry fee, and only take one shot(no cali)for the day, you really think he would say no? I would be at the disadvantage. Why not let me play? I knew four months ago when you picked the date that at least one of our team members would not be able to show up.

If this is the case, I say we go back to the rule set at the begining of the season, and say that only three doubles teams and two trips teams are allowed, and you need to pick those before play starts.
While I agree that it is good to try to involve more players, this rule was changed mid season. The old minimum of six argument. Why should teams that have all twelve be at such a distinct advantage?

Pete Tolvanen · Post by **Pete Tolvanen** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:09 pm

What does the following mean for triples:
"If a golfer, or golfers, show up late and the group has teed off they will be stroked..."

If you don't have 3 guys ready at a tee-pad does that mean your team takes an automatic par+4 on the hole then the present players (could be 2 of them) can take CTP runs at the hole but still record '7' on the scorecard even if one of them hits a CTP ace? When the 3rd guy finally shows they start recording normal scores for holes the rest of the way?

Nobody forget the BBQ because that's a 6-stroke swing!

Effectively I think this policy means if you come with 11 guys - your 'team' of 2 during triples is hoping that the 12th guy will show up (never will because you know he isn't coming) and is taking par+4 for each hole, making CTP throws and finishing with an eye-popping 126+ as their score - which is likely discarded.

Bobby Direnzo · Post by **Bobby Direnzo** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:14 pm

Todd Lapham wrote:
Bobby D wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
yaskis wrote:Solbo, no one cares about Burgess except Burgess.

Buffumville is America's Team.

Well, everyone better care about Burgess, cuse we are in the drivers seat looking at Buff in the rearview mirror.

Thats what happens when you play easy teams! Played one tough team and look what happen? Oww ya lost to Maple.

I'm pretty sure we played you guys, right? So you're saying Buff isn't a tough team? Might want to think before you post. Also, we had a harder schedule than you, no offense to Devens and Tolland, but you played both the "bottom dwellers" and we only played one. Oh yeah, and we lost to MH at Pyramids in OT. You barely beat them at home.

Did you play wick? Guess what we beat them at there course, so you can think what you want. Were both 4 and 1 face it.. See you in the finals buddy, enjoy the 1 stroke cuz you will need it.. :wink:

By the way a win is a win. You lost in OT and we won in OT. Did i forget to mention Gary missed 3 holes? Anything could of happened but if Gary played all 18 we may have not even seen OT.. See you at the finals Toodles... :lol:

Mike Dussault · Post by **Mike Dussault** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:38 pm

That is almost a foriegn laguage.

:lol:

Andy Gallerani · Post by **Andy Gallerani** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:46 pm

That first sentence is epic

Heres a question: what if all teams bring 9? I know ive already asked but it hasnt been directly answered by Joe. Seems to me it should be 4 dubz and 3 trips teams for the first and second rounds, no?