What's peoples opinions on this hand? Anyone play any different? fold flop? I could see folding preflop but the MP1 was playing reckless and is more than willing to stack off with one pair type hands. I had no reads on the UTG+1 player.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Big Blind is 50 (8 handed) Hand History converter, Courtesy of PokerZion.com
UTG+1 seems to be playing a drawing hand like A-K or A-Q cheaply. Limping in to hopefully see the flop, and then get good pot odds and implied odds if he hits the flop.
MP1 (based on your read) could be playing just about anything, a small pair, big pair, suited connectors, or even suited gappers.
I like your call of his bet because you have a hand, albeit a small pair, that if you hit the flop for trips, could get you paid off in a big way. However, the limp in by UTG+1 does concern me, because you could get sandwiched pretty easily, if UTG+1 decides to re-raise. A fold here is not an unreasonable decision, but could give you a bad table image. Of course, re-raising is also dangerous, as even though you can define your hand, you open yourself up to the re-raise. You'll also be out of position after the flop, not a good place to be as we all know.
The call by the UTG+1 defines his hand as a drawing hand, as he'd likely re-raise if he had a big pair. Even A-K might warrant a re-raise, but probably not. He's getting decent pot odds to call, and excellent implied odds if he hits the flop, as it will be difficult for you and MP1 to put him on a hand.
Post-flop, your check is probably correct. You've got trips, two other players in the hand, both of which have shown a willingness to get involved with whatever they're holding. You could get paid off in a big way if they bet. However, the texture is dangerous with three clubs on the board, none in your hand, and two players, who again, have shown a willingness to get involved. Either one could be holding two small suited or gapping clubs, or Ac-Kc.
Your check shows weakness based on the board, and opens the hand up to the other two players. The check by UTG+1 doesn't tell you anything, because he could have the flush right now, have a pair of aces, have two pair, or have nothing. And the bet by MP1 is a good aggressive move at a pot that has been checked to him. Can't fault that move.
Here's where it gets dicey though. Once again, you're sandwiched, and as the hand plays out, that's exactly what happens. You call the MP1 bet, get re-raised, MP1 folds his hand (he was aggressive, lost, and got out of the way), and you're stuck in the middle debating what to do.
Working the odds just a little bit via my computer, showed that you were getting 2.8:1 on calling the UTG+1's all-in bet. Borderline call, but with a hand, not out of the question.
After typing all of this out, and thinking about it, I'm still not sure what the UTG+1 held. Without any type of read, tight or reckless, you could put him on just about any type of hand Ax-Kc, Kc-Qc, or even something as low as 6c-5c. With the obligatory trip aces, trip tens, kings, queens, or jacks all possibilities as well.
I doubt I could have called his all-in bet, but since you did, you must have narrowed his range of hands based on something you perceived at the table. And you decided that he was trying to "sandwich" you with a semi-bluff on a pair of aces but a draw to the flush.
With that "read" on my part, your call of the bet, and the pot odds and implied odds, I'm going to say that UTG+1 held Ax-Kc, and you lost on the river, when the 4c came out.
Figuring that into the equation, he had the following outs: the nine remaining clubs, three kings for a higher set, and three tens for a better full house - a total of 15 outs. Using the Rule of 4 with the turn and river to come, he has about a 60% chance of drawing out, making you a decided underdog.
Of course my read could be incorrect, so please enlighten us with the actualities of what UTG+1 held
The University of Michigan - "Hail to the Victors!"
First game of the day: I have 4,5 suited, call the blind. Flop contains a four and a five. Someone else bets 10 (we all start with 100) two people call, so I go all in. Someone calls my all-in. He has kings. I dominate. river=king.
Second game of day: I have 6's , flop contains a 6, after some bets I go all in, someone calls, turn and river both clubs putting 4 clubs on the board, someone has ace of clubs- I'm out.
Third game of day: I have largest pair, someone goes all in, I call, they have only inside strait draw, river = inside strait card.
Conclusion: Poker is in fact mostly luck and its an awful, awful, game!! I'm going to go find something to smash now...
Craig S. wrote: With that "read" on my part, your call of the bet, and the pot odds and implied odds, I'm going to say that UTG+1 held Ax-Kc, and you lost on the river, when the 4c came out.
Figuring that into the equation, he had the following outs: the nine remaining clubs, three kings for a higher set, and three tens for a better full house - a total of 15 outs. Using the Rule of 4 with the turn and river to come, he has about a 60% chance of drawing out, making you a decided underdog.
Of course my read could be incorrect, so please enlighten us with the actualities of what UTG+1 held
Great writeup Smolin and that was basically my line of thinking. I do have a question about how many outs you think he has. You think he has AxKc so he'd only have the nine flush outs. A king or ten does him no good or am I misunderstanding something here? He'd have to get another one on the river as well.
My line of thought on making this call was if he did have Ax with any club, I'd be a 70% favorite, if he already had a flush I'd be a 2 to 1 underdog, but I'd be getting a better price than that to fill up, so the call would be correct in this case also. The only hands that I'm really screwed by is AA or TT. I didn't think he'd play AA like this as he wouldn't want to have two other players in the pot and he ended the action and he'd have to be insane or extremely tricky to not put in another raise here with AA. So that leaves only one hand I really didn't want to see, TT. I called and he showed AT for top two pair and thank god I didn't fill up
todd - you're right. after re-reading my post, and even as I wrote it, I wasn't sure about his remaining outs. definitely the clubs, but I wasn't sure about how he could get a bigger full house.
The University of Michigan - "Hail to the Victors!"
sadly i was playing 2-4 limit and after the flop it was me and a really old frail guy left betting back and forth cause theirs no cap when it's two players... i cleaned him out showed my royal flush and got my foxwoods jacket
Nice work. You think they'd give out nicer jackets for a Royal. On a side not that game is brutal and I respect you for having the patients to play it. Also, what'd the old man have to keep going, smaller flush?
no the older guy just had two pair kings and tens.. yeah the jackets are kind of cheap not like i wear it, more like a trophy that hangs in the closet.. though it does come out sometimes in home games when i'm really drunk
i have an antique mahogony poker table from the 50's pretty sweet, 8 spots 2 cup holders and a receased area for your chips in each spot.. looking to get rid of it now that i have no room for it.. as soon as i can put a link on the site i'll post a pic
I just saw the sickest "bad beat" possibly ever. It was raised and reraised preflop and the flop came J 3 3. The first guy bet out 1/2 pot with JJ and tilt monkey (that just lost a big pot) moves all in for like 3 times the pot with Q 7 offsuit essentially drawing dead (.404% to be exact).
Turn 3
River 3
I wasn't even in the hand and almost puked. That's just sick.
Guy in early position raises to 30 and there are two other callers and myself with TT, four to the flop ($157 in pot). Flop is JT8 rainbow. Original raiser bets 100, I just call trying to get the guys behind me to call one does and one folds (457). Raiser checks, I check and the old donator shoves for $600, I snap call. He doesn't turn up his cards (which annoys me to no end) and the river is the worst possible card, another J. He shows QQ and takes the $1650 pot
equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 90.909% 90.91% 00.00% 40 0.00 { TcTd } Hand 1: 09.091% 09.09% 00.00% 4 0.00 { QdQh }
On to the next hand, it's raised in early position to 20, a couple callers and I make it 80 on the button with AKc and get two callers (280). I flop the nuts Ts Jc Qs but there's a flush draw and one of the guys in the hand plays any suited cards so that's in the back of my head. Guy leads out for $120 other guy calls and I just call hoping for a safe turn to get the money in because the guy will not fold a flush draw on the flop (640). Turn is the beautiful 2h and the guy bets 300 (leaving him 300 more) middle guy folds and I go all in and he calls pretty quickly with K9s. River is 4s and ship him the $1840 pot . That was just a cooler hand and neither of us can really fold, but one of us (him) could MISS A DRAW!
equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 77.273% 75.00% 02.27% 33 1.00 { AcKc } Hand 1: 22.727% 20.45% 02.27% 9 1.00 { Ks9s }
This hand is vs the same older donator from Chicago from hand one, who has made it his personal life goal to outplay me for some reason. He raises to 30 one caller to me with AA in the small blind and I make it 120, he calls without much thought and the other guy folds (275). The flop comes 8 high and I check (99% he is going to bet). He bets 150 and I go all in for 450 more, he laughs and says something like "can't have it everytime pal" and calls with JJ (again doesn't flip cards) turn is a J and river is a 9. I show AA and he slowrolls me with JJ. Send him the $1475 pot.
equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 91.616% 91.62% 00.00% 907 0.00 { AcAd } Hand 1: 08.384% 08.38% 00.00% 83 0.00 { JdJh }
Last big hand of the horrible night I make it $25 with KcQc and get four callers (125). Flop is J 7 3 all clubs . BB (crazy asian that has gone all in multiple times tonight) checks, I bet $75 and get two callers (350). Turn is a 4d and the BB checks I bet out 175 other guy calls and the BB goes all in for 400 more . I make the crying call and the other guy shows a set of 7's and folds. BB has Ac Jd and of course the 2c hits the river and I lose another massive pot ($1675)
equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 84.091% 84.09% 00.00% 37 0.00 { KcQc } Hand 1: 15.909% 15.91% 00.00% 7 0.00 { AcJh }
I have come to the conclusion that Foxwoods is rigged and Poker is a cruel , cruel game. This was the worst I have ever run at Foxwoods, not my biggest loss, but I have never lost so many big pots in my life.
For anyone who plays on AbsolutePoker.com, you may have noticed the Bad Beat Jackpot got hit tonight.
Well the guy who lost had Quad K's, and lost to a straight flush on the river. He won 100k, the guy who beat him won like 40k, and everyone at the table picked up 14k for just being at the table.
One of the people at the table was Dewey!!!!!!
That lucky S.O.B. picked up 14 grand by folding!!!!
I've never played at a casino. I'm not very good with 8 players at the table, but when it gets down to 4 or fewer, for some reason I'm much better. So the question is- At the casino's does everyone start with the same money and as people go out the game continues with fewer players, or are people replaced as they go out?
Cash games at a casino there's typically a minimum and maximum buyin. The 1-2 NL game at Foxwoods (the lowest they have) is $60 min $300 max. Any player can buyin between those two amounts, so not everyone necessarily starts off with the same amount of money. The tables are also 10 handed, so that's even worse for you since you like short handed better. As players bust out or leave the table they are replaced off the waiting list (if there is one) if there isn't one then you just play however many are at the table 2-10. This typically doesn't happen during peak times, but sometimes at like 4am you'll get to play 5-6 handed as most non degenerate gamblers are home sleeping.
Hope this helps, any more questions feel free to ask.
POKERSTARS.COM started with nothing got $2.00 from coming in 22nd out of 12000.on a freeroll. played .01-.05 table progressed to $10..couple tounrys now at $27.00 from nothing...still got that poker table for sale $150 highest bider well worth it pic soon if you want it...well worth it..let me in next poker tourny will wear the jacket?????
I usually go on tuesday and friday or saturday nights. I've been kind of slacking lately and only going once every other week. Been playing a lot online, which I'd think was a better rake, but unfortunately pokertracker keeps track of the rake you pay and I've actually paid a sh*tload in rake this year. It's kind of sad actually. How'd you guys do? I'd guess BOB lost, and you won!
Todd Lapham wrote:I usually go on tuesday and friday or saturday nights. I've been kind of slacking lately and only going once every other week. Been playing a lot online, which I'd think was a better rake, but unfortunately pokertracker keeps track of the rake you pay and I've actually paid a sh*tload in rake this year. It's kind of sad actually. How'd you guys do? I'd guess BOB lost, and you won!
Wow, that's cold.
I'm 99% that I will be there this Saturday again. I already have to drive half was there to pick up 4 tires and rims for my car. Bob is thinking of going too.
Actually, Bob won $80 and I won $210. We played $1/$2 No Limit. We walked in at about 3:45 and sat right down.
I could see folding preflop but the MP1 was playing reckless and is more than willing to stack off with one pair type hands. I had no reads on the UTG+1 player.
. That was just a cooler hand and neither of us can really fold, but one of us (him) could MISS A DRAW!
