a petition for nefa BOD from members for DG courses

[Titan Bariloni]

the mission statement says blah blah

the point series is nefa's main focus..an event host 72-180 players once a year!!!
these players are all often already DG'ers who have been introduced to competitive DG in some form

I would like to lobby the Nefa BOD to explore this as a future long term plan for DG courses in NE

Every year Nefa BoD approaches a DG deadzone in NE..there are many!!
They then approach wherever with full sponsorship of course including design,volunteer work,tools,equipment(baskets,tees,sign,kiosk)

They then to generate volunteers give a Nefa lifetime gold membership to anyone who puts X(TBA) amount of hours into project..and several other goodies they could collect from area DG?non DG business for people who contribute less hours..they get this sponsorship through a media/marketing/sponsorship team..who they offer nefa lifetime gold memberships to if needed

every time a course is finished they then move to the next ect ect..they could even do it in stages as many time land needs time for design before X ect ect so they could create a cycle.

This would "grow" the sport so much more then a point series..as potential of 50-250 players a day could play the course..

I understand Nefa gives money to courses for grants....isn't it time the ORG took the bull by the horns to get courses in the ground rather rely on sometime unqualified DG players to achieve course green lights,money,design,installation?

I think added with the overall point series or hours logged for course work idea suggested..would be an effective way to get more people helping at courses/creating courses and shift the focus back to where it needs to be rather this point ho'ing mentality..

discuss

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Sounds like a pretty big undertaking.

How do we choose which "dead zone" gets the attention first, second, etc.?
How would we go about setting time limits on each phase of the course? We(DisCap) have been working no less than FOUR locations for installation for 2 or more years. Only one of them looks to have baskets in the ground this year. We're still not giving up on the others but........ red tape is just that.

Volunteers in dead zones? Another issue that requires signifigant research to find bodies willing to donate a bunch of time out of their lives to see the job thru.

If you''re expecting the State Rep to coordinate this all, you're gonna run into some roadblocks as far as timing/travel/dedication goes. I do by best to keep the NY/NEFA world organized but adding a course installation to my list of "to-do's" would work unless the location was nearby.

I have more thoughts about this but this job thing calls................... good concept Titan, but it's gonna need some serious thinking thru to succeed on a large region like NEFA.

[Titan Bariloni]

we could take some membership polls to see where they would like explored

if ya look at the grid in those eyes..visible deadzones are apparent..

I would think first population deadzones could be explored first as they would have the most bang for the buck..reach more people concept through massive numbers potentially

to start I think working off the grid..you would want to focus on an area that is close to another course(s) but far enough away to get the intended impact desired more DG to new people rather feeding players more courses kinda thing...so you could draw volunteers..picking an area in the middle of nowhere would be foolish for sure

the red tape might be helped out by bhaving the only real force in DG regional wide..they are already gonna be met with a better response..then some gungho DG'er who wants a course in that area..Nefa could put together a comprehensive package outlining the benefits of DG..

the resource part would be better as they have more then most locals..who often have to fundraise for everything..nefa has much more to bring to the table from the start

they also have a pool of designers to draw from to offer a great product..

they then instill NEFA from the start to every person forever at that course..something that will spread around word of mouth more..
they could put nefa everywhere on the baskets..and then have a future spot for a new event to evolve the point series as well..ya know the course would be sweet and complete...

heck if done right and the planets aligned could be done in conjunction with the state rotation for finals and unleash the course at finals

of course as above mentioned a cycle would need to be set as anyone know in course work things come to stops sometimes for reasons we can't control or should control...so having a few projects open would prob be the best anyways..and thinking of the "grid" a long term plan should be determined anyways so the future should always be present anyways

if nefa made it rain with member comps or free memberships people might step up more IDK...eventually the $$$ nefa shells out would come back IMO..prob 10 fold
so it would be an investment for sure...but the amount of players they could reach whom in turn may become members far out weighs the potential of new membership from the point series..as 40% or more of event fields are long term seasoned members..that leaves ya with at most 30-50 players to reach out to for membership..compared to the foot traffic day to day at a course...hmmmm

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Your positive attitude and gung-ho style amazes me sometimes............. dunno where you get it but keep it coming.

[Titan Bariloni]

furthermore..lol(story behind furthermore is funny)

I do see the value in competitive DG for sure..and do see it as a good avenue to evolve the sport

it is good to teach players the things that come with competitive golf..ethics,behavior,sportsmanship ect ect

I see the end game for competitive DG as well though

we breed a series this in itself spells competition..eventually enough athletic people play the series thus making it even more competitive..rightfully so

the way event fees are going in higher rather lower..this makes players decide is the fun/good times worth X amount..ya you are playing at the same time as X amount of players but it boils down to a 3some-5some each round..the same amount of people a person could play with for FUN at their course or abroad instead of spending X on an event that they have no chance of being competitive on...

if fees lower..and some have to include these players that are not gonna win regardless of division..and still gain the value of lots of new faces,good time then ya maybe it would be a great way to grow the sport..but that is not seeming to be the norm..

also as more PDGA events spawn and the norm seems to be PDGA/Nefa..heck we force Nefa TD's in non pdga event to follow PDGA rules/payout..wouldn't you think eventually players will just skip Nefa and sign up for PDGA? as saving 10 bucks every event..weighs more then the end of the year payout for series would give them...

also events cap at 72/90 often..this limits the ability for growth seems strange to format growth around something limited..

that said..the best way to "grow" the sport would be courses in places there is no courses...IMO..kinda seems logical..if the face of NE DG is to be nefa..then it also seems logical nefa has a more powerful force in getting new courses..rather just giving $$$ to courses...if nefa is the face of the course from the start the same values of competitive DG could be instilled..to help also educate the players on do's and don't of a DG course...IMO would really help get a course off in the right direction from the start..

I understand this is major work..we have major DEADZONES..if we are to conquer this quest of NE DG domination then we must up the ante and all strive to achieve the goal

If it means a full restructure of the ORGS resources,energy,focus..then so be it

If nefa wants to continue on the same path..of main focus un series and just shelling out cash to under qualified people to do as they see fit to courses then maybe another regional or smaller local orgs need to pop up to fill in the blank left..

I truly think nefa should be the face of ALL DG related items in NE

JW TY...the things I see everyday dealing w/ DG stuff amazes me and gives me joy..much more then my shart scores at an event!!!

[Matt DeAngelis]

I like the idea as well and think it has value. I brought up something similar at a board meeting, asking why don't we donate and entire set of 18 baskets to a brand new course instead of a grant money. Once that course is in and has the money to buy their own baskets, NEFA gets their loaner baskets back and donates another set of 18 to a brand new course. It's all about people volunteering their time to work on something like this, but there aren't enough Don Boutins or Jason Southwicks out there.

[Titan Bariloni]

NEFA gets their loaner baskets back and donates another set of 18 to a brand new course. It's all about people volunteering their time to work on something like this, but there aren't enough Don Boutins or Jason Southwicks out there.

good idea as well

the deal with volunteers is an issue..we all need to address..

the question how to get more? what will inspire people?

I don't know the answer

[Matt DeAngelis]

Yeah, the gold membership is good, but not much other than the distinction of being a gold member.

Maybe a 5 year membership to NEFA for the "workhorse." We've had discussions about offering prizes for people at the NEFA banquet this year for things like this.

[Titan Bariloni]

it has been stated we are a volunteer org...should we force..umm encourage people to log some volunteer hours...post some pictures of work..would be awesome if work was highlighted in some form..for inspirational reasons

we force em to play 6 events..maybe we should force to qualify for finals you must log X hours of volunteer time..lol..of course just the AM2 field...lol

along your idea of awards..and mine of a work series..some way to fuse those ideas..I mean google speadsheet listing person name and hours logged..could even put what course..would fairly simple to maintain...honor system when logging hours..or a picture of before and after..we rally up the DG businesses..who benefit from this work..ask em for stuff and we make it rain with added Nefa prizes/memberships to top finishers

that is the only idea that seems logical to boost volunteer course work to the next level...that I have seen

I don't even know where my inspiration come from...I guess I just have fun doing it..most of the time

[Titan Bariloni]

4 divisions for work series

Junior
female
age protected
18-49 year old male

over all leader as well

what would impress me if someone won their respective division in the DG series and the DG work series...

but overall the winner of these series would impress me more then the winner of just the singles series...anyone can be beaten on the course and someone is always better somewhere..the lasting effect the work winners did for DG in NE far outweighs athletic ability IMO

edit..also if nefa had a log of sorts would go hand in hand with showing these deadzones the amount of volunteer time the org brings to the table as a whole
I used to be the type that didn't care about how mNy hours I spent out there..but when your pitching courses to people..it goes a long way to have an actual log of people/clubs hours donated to show them ya mean business

TD'ing could also be logged as hours..any volunteer time really..doesn't just have to be course work..maybe people will see how many hours BOD's put in...behind the scenes at times..I know emails,pms,calls are all time

this could also tie into the regional work idea..as nefa selects a few dates a year to not host an event and setup regional workdays...kinda like a work event as people gather for DG..

[Matt Aubin]

While this all sounds great in theory, I think it would have some major hurdles to go over.

First, I think there is this false mentality that NEFA is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL about the 'point series...' Yeah, it might dominate player's thoughts during the season, but that's just because it's what we do. Play tournaments, socialize and compete. I think there is a sort of myth that the Point Series was/is intended to 'grow the sport' but it never has been or was intended to. The vast majority of players do not compete in sanctioned events, but still benefit from the dues paid by NEFA members from the grant program.

It's like that old whisper in the ear trick. One person mentions an opinion on this forum, and then someone re-states it, and all of a sudden NEFA's official stance on all DG matters becomes something that someone mentioned in passing 2 years ago. Know what I mean?

The point series is great but honestly I would not and do not pay my dues for it. I pay dues to see that $ pooled together in the form of grants for courses. If that was ALL that NEFA did, that's good enough for me. I play the point series because of NEFA's involvement in course donations; I don't donate to courses so I can play in tournaments.


Now, as far as organizing course work on the NEFA level: as we all know, building and maintaining courses is a labor of love. It's usually only spearheaded by one or two dedicated people, who may or may not have a crew of people who don't mind taking orders instead of constantly holding up the process. I don't believe any amount of 'award system' can force members to go work somewhere, especially if the proposed course is in a 'dead zone' where there is no direct payback ( a new local course) for your time/work/effort. I would LOVE to be wrong, but it's damn hard to get someone to help when they live 5 minutes from a course nevermind 5 hours.

Where I can see this going is a bit like a (and I HATE to use this analogy, but I think it works) big government political system. It may seem like using the vast resources of a governing body to get things done is a good idea, but involving MORE red tape (even if 'friendly' red tape, NEFA stuff) will just stall or even kill any project. In my experience, courses get put in areas that do not have them from the dedication of locals who have constant access to local town meetings, a dedication to the project on a personal level. If someone says 'No' they keep trying. If these local leaders have their hands 'tied' to NEFA in that every decision has to pass through a bevy of volunteers and designers and money men, nothing will get done.

Overall, I think Jeff raised a lot of the same points I was thinking of:

How do we choose which "dead zone" gets the attention first, second, etc.?

There's fighting and grumbling about who gets GRANTS now... how would an entire course install go over?

How would we go about setting time limits on each phase of the course?

These types of projects can take years,and will certainly span the time frame of NEFA board member terms... the next gen of board might be against it and leave projects hanging. Also, volunteers come and go. It's easy to get burnt on work days. VERY easy.

Volunteers in dead zones?

This is a biggie. I know of the dead zones you speak of, and there's a reason... there's no one there! Or, the local area/towns just have no interest in DG (large cities, state owned land, private land, etc). If you build it, they will come, but a promise to help build does not make volunteers come. It's a chicken or egg situation.


Overall, I think it's a good idea but not feasible in what is being presents here and now. BUT, something that could be tweaked. For instance, if a local DG'er in an area with NO courses around has eyes on a sweet spot of land, they could ask NEFA for help and there could be a 'temporary' crew: a set of temp baskets, designers who are willing to travel to give opinions on land use and feasibility, nerds who are willing to write up proposals and help with town red tape, basically lend a hand while not being 'too many cooks in the kitchen' about it. This group will be able to tell if the locals are adamant about upkeep on a new course, if it's even plausible on the land, gauge local interest in the sport/proposed course, etc.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

GREAT responses, Matt !!

I envy those that can take some raw ideas, see the REAL depth of the issue and be able to spit out a response with valid and honest points.

[Titan Bariloni]

if a local DG'er in an area with NO courses around has eyes on a sweet spot of land, they could ask NEFA for help and there could be a 'temporary' crew: a set of temp baskets, designers who are willing to travel to give opinions on land use and feasibility, nerds who are willing to write up proposals and help with town red tape, basically lend a hand while not being 'too many cooks in the kitchen' about it. This group will be able to tell if the locals are adamant about upkeep on a new course, if it's even plausible on the land, gauge local interest in the sport/proposed course, etc.

this is a valid idea as well

and I also don't think it was a myth though..there are many who won't/don't renew cuz they don't play the series..if nefa had a more hands on approach rather just a grant proposal and hand out the dough...there is even a case of this year dough being handed out..and no course in the foreseeable future...if nefa had at least visited the land talked with PTB then maybe something could be different..or $$$ coulda been shipped elsewhere..

edit..we can also ask Matt S if the series was to grow the sport..I think he would say in some form yes

the big gov thing is stretching it..as in this case the more resources the better

I can see the point about rotating BOD's..something that needs to be changed is future BOD's not furthering ideas from years past..if we are all volunteers we should respect the work of years past and just add to it

[Jeff Wiechowski]

...there is even a case of this year dough being handed out..and no course in the foreseeable future...

Really? I guess i missed that one.

I can see the point about rotating BOD's..something that needs to be changed is future BOD's not furthering ideas from years past..if we are all volunteers we should respect the work of years past and just add to it

Easier said than done.

DisCap has adopted the BoD plan that votes members in office for multiple years. Not sure about the details, i'll try to dig it up.

[Titan Bariloni]

did amherst get a grant?...if so it might have been in haste so maybe regroup that situation or reallocate to another more promising area in amherst

multi years would be cool with me..more efficient as it takes time to learn stuff and then do stuff and bam election...maybe having a year to learn/plan and a year to do stuff would be better