Moving Finals to earlier in the year

[Gary Cyr]

There were about 30 NEFA tournaments this year heading up to the finals. With that many tournaments available, is it time to move the Finals a little earlier in the year. The 2nd week of October brings in more variables to discs golf competition that you wouldn't deal with in mid September. The weather is more dependable in September and you don't have falling leaves on the ground making it much more possible to have a lost disc during competition.

Just looking to start a conversation about this to get opinions. I would like to see the Finals moved to earlier. Curious what much of the rest of us think about this.

[Matt Mourovic]

There were about 30 NEFA tournaments this year heading up to the finals. With that many tournaments available, is it time to move the Finals a little earlier in the year. The 2nd week of October brings in more variables to discs golf competition that you wouldn't deal with in mid September. The weather is more dependable in September and you don't have falling leaves on the ground making it much more possible to have a lost disc during competition.

Just looking to start a conversation about this to get opinions. I would like to see the Finals moved to earlier. Curious what much of the rest of us think about this.

I second this. Not like we can count on decent weather at any time of year here in NE, but I agree that a couple weeks earlier in the season might make for a more pleasant end to the NEFA tournament schedule. At the finals I felt like I was playing a different game than I had all season - spent all summer doing tourneys and then it was like 35 degrees out at the finals. Different grip on the discs, different gear (boots, pants, and jackets instead of shorts and sneakers), etc. Of course, all those trees I hit will be there no matter when we play it...

- matt

[Josh Connell]

Finals have been in late September before, specifically in 2006 and 2007 (September 30 2006 @ Borderland and September 29 2007 @ Warwick). No idea what the rationale was for pushing back into mid to late October after that, but I can't see why it has to continue.

If the Finals gets moved into September or earlier, I think consideration should be given to starting the new season earlier as well. Since we're ostensibly losing potential points dates in September with such a change, maybe allowing for October/November events to count toward the following year would be a fair compromise.

All this would require quick turnaround as far as putting together the charter and getting it out there more quickly than January 3 like it was this past year.

[Kenji Cline]

I'd be down for any movement in when finals are. The 2nd week in Oct is my son's and woman's Bday. 11th & 13th. I have yet to make to a nefa finals because of this.

[Gary Cyr]

If the Finals gets moved into September or earlier, I think consideration should be given to starting the new season earlier as well. Since we're ostensibly losing potential points dates in September with such a change, maybe allowing for October/November events to count toward the following year would be a fair compromise.

That's what I was thinking. Just have the season start in Oct and run until the finals in "earlier" September.

[Titan Bariloni]

why allow events in oct/noc/dec though

with nefa dubz growing every year I could envision the dubz series taking center stage in Fall/Winter

singles jan-sept
dubz oct-april

plenty of non nefa events as well scattered around this time of year..league parties,pdga,ect ect

great idea makes sense

edit..also have heard complaints over the years with season starting to early..maybe not allow events till FEB..and leave Jan for new admins/ect ect to settle in

[Gary Cyr]

Either one is fine by me. I just think there are so many events now that a player should be able to get 10-12 of them in easy by the beginning of September.

It just seems at this point it's to bad to have players playing in 35 degree weather. Or worse, potentially have there finals round decided by a lost disc penalty due to heavy leaves.

[George Economos]

How bout making finals count towards next years series. Right now it doesnt hold much weight. Just another tourney, since the points winners are already decided. So the finals would actually be the first stop in the fowolling year's series exclusive to qaulified players. Could even make it a 2 time, it is the top players gathered for battle, gives it some more meaning to win finals. Maybe then more would try to qualify and all qaulified would show.

[Kenji Cline]

How bout making finals count towards next years series. Right now it doesnt hold much weight. Just another tourney, since the points winners are already decided. So the finals would actually be the first stop in the fowolling year's series exclusive to qaulified players. Could even make it a 2 time, it is the top players gathered for battle, gives it some more meaning to win finals. Maybe then more would try to qualify and all qaulified would show.

I like this idea that previous years finals are a X2 Nefa points event for the following season. Although is does discourage moving up a little between seasons.

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Along with the divisional restrictions Kenji mentioned, there's also the problem that everyones not invited and gives a 2x advantage to those that are invited.

[Kenji Cline]

The 2x advantage to the invitees only I don't think is that big of a deal. There is enough events to make that up and it makes a player work harder to get to finals.

[Josh Connell]

How bout making finals count towards next years series. Right now it doesnt hold much weight. Just another tourney, since the points winners are already decided. So the finals would actually be the first stop in the fowolling year's series exclusive to qaulified players. Could even make it a 2 time, it is the top players gathered for battle, gives it some more meaning to win finals. Maybe then more would try to qualify and all qaulified would show.

I like this idea that previous years finals are a X2 Nefa points event for the following season. Although is does discourage moving up a little between seasons.

Making the finals a part of the following season like this may give players a head-start earning points, but for many it would be in a division in which they don't intend to continue (or perhaps have already moved on from, but played it in the finals since that's where they qualified). Finals should be the culmination of a season, but not the beginning of the next. It's the World Series, the Super Bowl, the Stanley Cup of the NEFA disc golf world.

I do agree with George's point that as things are now, Finals is only "special" because you have to qualify to get it in. Otherwise it's an ordinary tournament that doesn't really have enough oomph to be a must-play event. I think the idea of making it a part of the series, and giving it a big impact on the final standings might do more towards that end. Make it so skipping the finals can put one's final place in the standings in some jeopardy and maybe you'll get more people making a point of being there.

The FedEx Cup had an interesting way of doing this in that before the final tournament, the participants (top 30 in the standings) had their points re-set based on their standing. So Rory McIlroy was #1, he was assigned the most points, and on down. Then, each place in the Final tournament was worth X amount of points. This gave everyone a chance at being the overall season champion, some by simply winning the Final, some by winning the Final and getting help (McIlroy finishing 5th or worst, or something like that). Brandt Snedeker was #5 entering the Final, won it, and therefore was the season champion.

Perhaps we take each qualifier's point total, give him an average (total pts / 6 in Open), and then say that plus points earned at the Final (same formula as usual) is their total to determine the overall season champion. Just as a sample, I'll do Open division that attended finals, and how they'd finish in my adjusted final standings. Obviously Yaskis didn't attend, but I include him as he was the standings winner to demonstrate the effect not attending Finals could have on the overall standing. I also include the change in place amongst the top 10.

Code: Select all

           Season       Final        Total      Change
Wintrob   97.3305     101.3       198.6305        + 2
Walsh     94.6196      84.6153    179.2350515     + 2
Jiardini  84.4558      92.3076    176.7635257     + 4
Economos  97.6406      69.2307    166.8714363     - 2
Gallant   82.2476      84.6153    166.8630515     + 3
Chaney    86.5945      53.8461    140.4406544     ---
Charron   69.1081      61.5384    130.6466287     +12
Jenkins   75.9523      53.8461    129.7984877     + 5
Cyr       88.1528      38.4615    126.6143725     - 4
Yaskis   100.1095       0.0000    100.1095        - 9
Aucoin    71.8513      23.0769     94.92825733    
Dunne     78.5693      15.3846     93.95394973
Direnzo   44.1801      30.7692     74.94939827
Bariloni  51.7195       7.6923     59.4118088

It's a bit rough around the edges since the only real thought I've put in is in the 30 minutes it took me to write this post and do the math on the sample. But I think it might be an idea to build on.

[Brad Harris]

The FedEx cup is comprised of pro golfers whose job is to compete in tournaments. NEFA is comprised of amateurs who have other responsibilities and obligations that may prevent them from playing in finals. Travel distance, family obligations, or work obligations on finals weekend should not cost someone their place in the standings.

[Matt Stroika]

I like where you went with that Josh, but I am a math/numbers guy. Emotional folk may hate it with a passion.

[George Economos]

I forgot about the move up factor, so scratch playing for next yrs points, but I don't think the finals should change season standings. I do however think there needs to be some more significance to finals. How bout the winner gets to beezang Bob's mom!
Jk Bob

[George Economos]

Sorry that wasn't constructive. I will think harder.

[Rob Tatro]

I like where you went with that also Josh and I, like Stroika am a numbers guy thus perhaps my affinity to the idea. It certainly puts a little more umph into the importance of attending finals. I'd like to see Finals evolve ... ever since it's been as it is now, it just hasn't been all that spectacular. Not like finals could be/should be IMO. It'll be interesting to see this discussion evolve ... hopefully in a positive manner

[George Economos]

Okay, how bout a skins match for finals, groups by order of season standings. Then everyone has a little competitive fun with the person that was closest to them at seasons end. Also, gives everyone qualified the chance for a little lunch money. This doesn't take anything away from points winners, it spices up the final gathering and allows for a ton of smack talk and added side bets.
?

[eric kaplan]

Maybe finals should be match play....

[George Economos]

obviously the top 3 or 4 would play for the most money, giving them the excitement of having finished the top 3 or 4 players for the year now get to battle it out amongst each other. it would kinda make finals not just about the money but allow players that finish so close to each other to battle it out in their own little group

[Tim Carter]

Maybe finals should be match play....

Some battle hardened vet can provide the details, but I have heard that finals used to be match play... Figuring out a way to do that format and keep as many people involved as possible may be a challenge.

I like georges skins idea, except skins is not the same game as stroke play. If you think wearing a jacket changes your game, playing a different game might change your game more...

[George Economos]

how about this take all the season ending payouts and put those towards the skins match . you could still recognize the series winner with the trophy and maybe clean 100 dollar bill but take the rest of the money and put it towards the skins match in each group for instance I came in 17th and got 29 dollars I really didn't play all s eason to get to 29 dollars It was insignificant . I would rather have played skins match with my entry fee and my 29 dollars in my groups pot. minus expenses the Td needs to take out of entry fee of course

[Josh Connell]

Maybe finals should be match play....

From the thread about the last NEFA Finals (2005) that was done using match play, a rather lengthy discussion about the merits of match play vs stroke play as the format for finals starts right about here. It was an annual discussion, but since this particular version of the forum only dates back to early 2005, this is the only one we've got to look at. Previous discussions on old message boards are lost to the depths of the interwebs.

[Matt Stroika]

Nice one Ekap. That is the best idea because that was the most fun. The only people against it, and it seemed to be a very vocal majority, never played it. Who cares if it is a different game? It is finals which is different than the regular season.

[Rob Tatro]

For instance I came in 17th and got 29 dollars I really didn't play all s eason to get to 29 dollars It was insignificant .

So true George. I've been saying it for years, tried to get rid of it so that we could use that for other purposes while I was NEFA president but that didn't go my way. I would hope that maybe the current NEFA BOD is taking a closer look at this because there are not too many players who see the value in a these small, deep payouts at the end of the year. Only the top handful of players in a division see something significant but they are the one's who have been doing well all year so it's kind of rewarding the already rewarded. To think that NEFA squandered away $6000+ paying out players who don't really care about those payouts seems crazy to me. There were players at NEFA finals who didn't even want to wait around for those payouts in favor of leaving early to catch the Patriots football game ... others that didn't even see the value of showing up for it.

Nice one Ekap. That is the best idea because that was the most fun. The only people against it, and it seemed to be a very vocal majority, never played it. Who cares if it is a different game? It is finals which is different than the regular season.

I'd give anything to see that come back to fruition. For those of us who were there and experienced the thrill of that format, we know how good it was. There is a way to make that work with some vision, but as Matt says, there is a very vocal group of players that don't want to hear that.

[Josh Connell]

The monies raised by points fees (and the match by NEFA) originally was split 50/50 between the standings payout and the Finals. Somewhere along the line, that split changed to 60/40 in favor of the standings. Perhaps the split should be reversed, or skewed even further in favor of the Finals (70/30)? That might help make the Finals a more attractive event (more added cash) and, combined with a not-as-deep payout, lessen the significance of the standings finish.

[Matt Stroika]

The match play finals format was so good that I would consider going just to spectate if it was not that far away.

The downfall was that people playing for places above 10th would leave. That is a simple fix with $6000 to play with. You leave, you don't get paid.

Bring back match play at NEFA finals.

[Gary Cyr]

Match Play, Storke Play, Stableford,...I don't care. Just move it earlier in the year.

[eric kaplan]

I can think of a ton of reasons match play finals kicked ass. Let's try it again.

-- I just read most of Josh's link, and I only see one person vocal against Match play finals. Talk about a vocal minority. I"m only bringing this up because I think it would be better. I remember this changed because a bunch of people bolted after the first day. I can think of at least 4 guys on this board who could figure out a fix for that.

[Kyle Moriarty]

I can think of someone who bolted this year at finals. People will drop out and bolt no matter what format.