Rule Book

[Rob Walker]

Does anyone know when the new rule book comes out? I need to pick up one that is more recent than the 2001(?) that I have, but want to be as up to date as possible.

[Josh Connell]

Does anyone know when the new rule book comes out? I need to pick up one that is more recent than the 2001(?) that I have, but want to be as up to date as possible.

The new rule book is available from PDGAStore.com right now. Also, there's a printable version (could also be saved to a phone/tablet) available at PDGA.com/rules.

[Rob Walker]

Thanks, Josh. I should've checked there first. For some reason I was thinking that it may be coming out later in the spring.

[Patrick Harris]

The latest revision of the rule book is 2011.

[Josh Connell]

The latest revision of the rule book is 2011.

Nope. Latest revision is 2013, as of this past Tuesday. It's actually a pretty big overhaul. A complete re-organization of the book itself and a few significant changes. They're all listed at the rules link I posted above.

[Matt Stroika]

How many times have you read it thru so far Josh?

[Josh Connell]

How many times have you read it thru so far Josh?

Probably three or four times, but that dates back to when Conrad posted the sneak peak version back in September. Once a month isn't strange, is it?

[Patrick Harris]

The latest revision of the rule book is 2011.

Nope. Latest revision is 2013, as of this past Tuesday. It's actually a pretty big overhaul. A complete re-organization of the book itself and a few significant changes. They're all listed at the rules link I posted above.

Oh man...seriously??

PDGA should send me the new book because in 2012, I renewed my membership for two years (2012-2013) and I got the membership card and new rule book.

For 2013, I only got a tiny dog tag.

[Josh Connell]

The latest revision of the rule book is 2011.

Nope. Latest revision is 2013, as of this past Tuesday. It's actually a pretty big overhaul. A complete re-organization of the book itself and a few significant changes. They're all listed at the rules link I posted above.

Oh man...seriously??

PDGA should send me the new book because in 2012, I renewed my membership for two years (2012-2013) and I got the membership card and new rule book.

For 2013, I only got a tiny dog tag.

It's possible they didn't have the printed books to ship when they sent your renewal package for 2013. You are entitled to a new book as a current member. I'd contact PDGA HQ to find out if they are planning to send the books out to players that renewed in advance. At the very least, I think they'd send you one if you asked them, even if they weren't planning to automatically send them out to everyone in your situation.

[Matt DeAngelis]

GPS devices are no longer disallowed! So does that mean that someone could go to each pin and enter into their GPS device, then during the play, use that device to determine distance from target?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

GPS devices are no longer disallowed! So does that mean that someone could go to each pin and enter into their GPS device, then during the play, use that device to determine distance from target?

Good luck with that at J-Park in full bloom....... can't hardly get a cell phone signal thru that canopy.

[Josh Connell]

GPS devices are no longer disallowed! So does that mean that someone could go to each pin and enter into their GPS device, then during the play, use that device to determine distance from target?

Yup.

Long overdue, IMO. I never understood not allowing it. Especially with a GPS device in which you'd probably have to put in the effort to map out the course beforehand. No different than going out prior to an event and measuring out landmarks, then carrying around your notes during play so you can better estimate distances. Ball golfers do this all the time (measuring devices during play are illegal for them)...that's what a caddy book is. A GPS device is more or less an electronic caddy book.

Besides, how often in disc golf does knowing the exact distance to go greatly affect one's play? No player is dialed in enough to need to know the difference between 244 feet and 248 feet. I don't think there's an advantage to knowing you're exactly 205 feet out and estimating you're about 200 feet away. You're throwing the same shot either way.

[Matt DeAngelis]

True. With golf, each club is adding/subtracting a specific distance. Knowing the difference between 200 yds and 215 yds is a club length. Disc golf is very different in that it is all about the variance in your throw.

[Ryan Kasprzycki]

but I would think the device would be best used to see if you are far enough for the jump putt

thrown disc considered main way to mark it huh? minis willl be almost obcelete

[Karl Molitoris]

No player is dialed in enough to need to know the difference between 244 feet and 248 feet.

But if those numbers were, say 230' or 250' I'd fight ya for it (as for me throwing OHs, those are 2 totally different discs...as are just about any two 20' spreads between 200' and 300').

Karl

[Josh Connell]

but I would think the device would be best used to see if you are far enough for the jump putt

thrown disc considered main way to mark it huh? minis willl be almost obcelete

Minis are always going to be necessary for marking lies for which the thrown disc is not present on the playing surface, such as a mark after an OB shot or a mark under a suspended disc, and of course in situations where the thrown disc is the one you want to throw again. They'll never be obsolete.

As far as GPS determining whether one is inside or outside the circle, it depends on the GPS, doesn't it? Most aren't exactly accurate to the foot, especially if the signal is iffy to begin with. If it says you're at 33 feet from the target, you might actually be 32 or 31 feet away or 34 or 35 feet away. Good to jump putt or no? In the time it would take to debate it with the group, you could pace it off.

And Karl, even at 20-foot intervals, are we really talking about a huge difference? Okay, for you it's a matter of one disc or another. If you're 20 feet off because you choose the wrong disc, is that really that significant? Like I said, I don't think anyone's dialed in to an exact distance. Even if you know you can throw "disc X" 320 feet, sometimes it goes 300, sometimes 330, sometimes 315, sometimes 325. And that's assuming that it always goes where you are aiming. Sometimes the disc goes exactly 320 but is off-line, still leaving you 20 or 30 or 40 feet away from the target instead of right under it. Knowing the exact footage just isn't going to have a significant impact on most players' games.

[Karl Molitoris]

Josh,

For the majority of players I agree with you (it won't make much of a difference), but for ME (being the blindo that I am) it would make a HUGE difference! I can make a VERY large percentage of 10 footers but if all of those potential 10 footers instantly became 30 footers (or even half of them became 30 footers), I'd shoot numerous shot more per round. Or the difference between 20'ers and 40'ers, etc. For me personally, having EXACT distances (or even distances that are accurate to +/-10 feet) because my vision is so poor, will be a god-send!

Karl

[Danny White]

I received the 2013 rule book/Competition manual in my renewal pack from the PDGA yesterday

[Jeff Wiechowski]

I received the 2013 rule book/Competition manual in my renewal pack from the PDGA yesterday

As did I.

1st thing I noticed was a new face on the cover.

[Josh Connell]

1st thing I noticed was a new face on the cover.

It appears the trend is to use the current women's World Champ on the cover of the rule book and the men's World Champ on the cover of the competition manual.


2011 book = Stanhope/McCabe
2013 book = Hokum/McBeth

[John DeBois]

I like the changes. 2 questions though:

1) Are you now allowed to carry a 10 meter rope for measuring the putting circle? I know GPS devices are no longer banned, but wasn't sure about a tape-measure/rope, etc.

2) Is there any way the 30 second rule (for throwing once you've reached your lie) will be able to stick? The words "once free from distractions" seems to give the thrower an easy way out.

[Matt DeAngelis]

I didn't think carrying a tape measure or 10 meter rope was against the rules.

As for the 30 second rule, have you ever had a situation where it was a problem? I don't know that I have ever needed or wanted to put an individual player on the clock. I've had to do it as a TD to an entire group before.

[John DeBois]

10m tapes were banned by the "no measuring devices rule", which i don't see anymore. So will players be allowed to bust out a tape measure if they feel someone jumped putted in the circle? Just curious - not a big deal, but I am wondering if people will now start carrying around 10m rope.

As for the 30 second rule, have you ever had a situation where it was a problem? I don't know that I have ever needed or wanted to put an individual player on the clock.

Not really. Maybe once or twice in the last few years. But I was more curious about why the rule would be put in with such an easy "out". I.e. if someone wanted to start a clock on someone that was taking a long time, how could they enforce the rule? Maybe it's not a big deal - just wondering if anyone else thought the same.

[Matt DeAngelis]

Like a lot of the rules, enforcement can be tough because the rules are written poorly. Good example right there.

[Josh Connell]

I like the changes. 2 questions though:

1) Are you now allowed to carry a 10 meter rope for measuring the putting circle? I know GPS devices are no longer banned, but wasn't sure about a tape-measure/rope, etc.

You were allowed to do that before this rule change.

Old rule 802.04 Artificial Devices, last sentence of section A..."Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters or less for the purpose of rules enforcement." I've always carried a 2m tape measure in my bag for suspended discs, and it's come in handy on a few occasions.

2) Is there any way the 30 second rule (for throwing once you've reached your lie) will be able to stick? The words "once free from distractions" seems to give the thrower an easy way out.

Did it ever stick before?

I'm not sure they improved that rule too much by changing it from "mark the lie" to "reach the lie". I understand why they did it, but I do think it makes it tougher to enforce because now the beginning point of the clock is more nebulous, plus as you say, what constitutes "free from distraction"?

I don't think I've ever officially warned/penalized someone for excessive time. But I have certainly told players to pick up the pace, both as a player and as a TD. Those players I've spoken to were taking 45+ seconds, and doing it repeatedly. I don't care what "distractions" there might be on one shot or another, if a player is so easily distracted that every shot he attempts is a seemingly endless production, he needs to toughen up his concentration a bit.

For all the good it did, watching the live coverage of the USDGC last fall, I was screaming in the chat room about how long Nikko was taking on a few shots. Starting the clock when he marked, you could count the time on the video counter...he took over a minute just staring and walking around assessing one shot, and 55 seconds on the next. It was ridiculous, but obviously no one said a word.

[John DeBois]

I like the changes. 2 questions though:

1) Are you now allowed to carry a 10 meter rope for measuring the putting circle? I know GPS devices are no longer banned, but wasn't sure about a tape-measure/rope, etc.

You were allowed to do that before this rule change.

Old rule 802.04 Artificial Devices, last sentence of section A..."Measuring devices such as a tape measure may be carried and used to determine distances 10 meters or less for the purpose of rules enforcement." I've always carried a 2m tape measure in my bag for suspended discs, and it's come in handy on a few occasions.

Wow, had no idea. Thought for sure it was banned.

2) Is there any way the 30 second rule (for throwing once you've reached your lie) will be able to stick? The words "once free from distractions" seems to give the thrower an easy way out.

Did it ever stick before?

I'm not sure they improved that rule too much by changing it from "mark the lie" to "reach the lie". I understand why they did it, but I do think it makes it tougher to enforce because now the beginning point of the clock is more nebulous, plus as you say, what constitutes "free from distraction"?

I don't think I've ever officially warned/penalized someone for excessive time. But I have certainly told players to pick up the pace, both as a player and as a TD. Those players I've spoken to were taking 45+ seconds, and doing it repeatedly. I don't care what "distractions" there might be on one shot or another, if a player is so easily distracted that every shot he attempts is a seemingly endless production, he needs to toughen up his concentration a bit.

True, if for nothing else it does serve as a benchmark for when to give a warning.

[Patrick Harris]

2) Is there any way the 30 second rule (for throwing once you've reached your lie) will be able to stick? The words "once free from distractions" seems to give the thrower an easy way out.

Did it ever stick before?

I'm not sure they improved that rule too much by changing it from "mark the lie" to "reach the lie". I understand why they did it, but I do think it makes it tougher to enforce because now the beginning point of the clock is more nebulous, plus as you say, what constitutes "free from distraction"?

I don't think I've ever officially warned/penalized someone for excessive time. But I have certainly told players to pick up the pace, both as a player and as a TD. Those players I've spoken to were taking 45+ seconds, and doing it repeatedly. I don't care what "distractions" there might be on one shot or another, if a player is so easily distracted that every shot he attempts is a seemingly endless production, he needs to toughen up his concentration a bit.

True, if for nothing else it does serve as a benchmark for when to give a warning.

I disagree with the new 30 second rule (part of it). How can you make sure that you are safe and stable in thick part of the woods (in the rough) before making throws in 30 seconds? Need time to assess the area or find the discs, set the bag correctly without falling over, clearing the lies if needed, mark (or not mark) the disc, place proper footings and balances before making critical shots. All that in 30 seconds? It will work in the open/flat fields but not in the hilly/wooded or dangerous terrains areas like New England's. I just hope that people don't have to take that 30 seconds too seriously unless they know this certain player that have history of taking too much time...

[Matt Aubin]

Forcing someone to do everything in 30 seconds is a joke. I can understand a 30 second rule from when you take your stance, because that can have an outcome in the shot (waiting for wind). But seriously it's golf! Take your time, concentrate, make a good decision. You have a hot date or a cake in the oven , don't play tournaments!

[Josh Connell]

I think you guys are underestimating just how long 30 seconds can be. In my experience, even when dealing with an awkward lie, most players are in and out in 20 seconds or less. When a player even approaches the 30 second mark, these are the times we look at the other guys in the group and roll our eyes. IMO, once in a while going over 30 seconds is no big deal. Consistently pushing the limit or going beyond it is when things reach a point where the rule is needed.

The 30 second rule is in place for the same reason as the 3 minute lost disc rule...maintaining a reasonable pace of play. When you play slow, you aren't just affecting your group, you are potentially affecting the whole tournament. Has nothing to do with getting out of dodge at a reasonable hour, just keeping the proceedings flowing at a good rate. Nothing sucks more than standing around waiting because of one slow player/group, whether it's while backed up on a tee or at tournament central waiting for the next round to start.

[Matt Aubin]

While I agree with everything you say there Josh, I disagree with how long 30 seconds 'feels' for the group... it feels like forever only when it's not you. But if you're in trouble or just need time to assess the situation, I don't think you should have a 'rule' that forces pace of play. The only result is bad golf and higher scores. Could you imagine that rule in the PGA?

Some players are fast. Some take their time. Both theories work for different reasons for different people. It's not really fair to penalize someone because they don't play like you (within reason).

I think a more reasonable rule would be to allow 'extensions' like in proffesional billiards. They have a time limit and usually just bang through the easy shots, just like DG. But there are instances where you NEED to take more time, address the shot and make a good play. They simply call 'extension please' and can take the time to perform the best shot.

Edit:

Check out this video at about the 18:40 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTD4cITdQtw&feature=player_embedded

lead card Pro Open last few holes. Schultz has a lead over wiggins by 5. Barry gets in trouble and is looking at a 4. Wiggins is parked. possible 2 stroke swing and momentum change for sure.

Bary takes over 50 seconds to get a stance. Not D!cking around, just trying to get comfortable and ready to shoot. He makes the huge 45-50 footer to keep wiggins 4 off with 3 to go. Play of the tournament.

Under these new rules (rules should be enforced, otherwise they are suggestions), Wiggins should have screamed '30 SECONDS!' while Barry was putting. How is that at all sportsmanlike, fun, good for the scores, good for the sport, or good in any way?

Not all shots are equal. If someone is taking excess time on mundane shots then yes, call them on a general 'speed of play' blanket rule, a warning or something. But don't take away someone else's good golf just because you feel like you might be a tad inconvenienced now and then.

If it ain't broke...