Illegal lie mark?

[Drew Smith]

I see this a lot. When the front edge of the disc is not resting on the ground (tombstone, leaning on a rock, etc.), a player will mark the lie at the front edge of the disc. But the rules say the marker needs to be touching the disc.

So in the example of a tombstone (disc stuck in the ground on edge), you would mark it like:

Code: Select all

  /      
/_ 

and not like

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  /
/    _

Check out the 2012 USDGC at the 15:35 mark.

[Rob Walker]

Isn't your lie a vertical plane? If my disc is under a large rock, my lie, where I place my mini is directly above the front rim of my disc, on the rock above it. Same with being under a bridge that is over casual water.

[Patrick Harris]

Check out the 2012 USDGC at the 15:35 mark.

This is correct placement.

Pretend that you push the disc down to the ground (horizontal level) after sticking up, that's the area to mark in front of the disc. Same thing for 2 meter rules.

[Mike Dussault]

What about a bridge over troubled water???

[Patrick Harris]

What about a bridge over troubled water???

Well, it's up to the TD or course rules.

It's either an OB or playable on the bridge where the disc landed.

If the water is casual, then use 1 meter placement from either side of the water hazard where the disc first entered. No stoke penalty.

[Jeff Prendergast]

What about a bridge over troubled water???

I will lay me down.








Obviously.

[Josh Connell]

If the water is casual, then use 1 meter placement from either side of the water hazard where the disc first entered. No stoke penalty.

Uh, what? The casual obstacle (casual water) rule has not changed since the 1997 edition of the rules...

803.01 Obstacles And Relief
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

Don't confuse the casual obstacle rule with OB rules. Two different circumstances, two different rules, two different ways to play.

[Rob Walker]

If the water is casual, then use 1 meter placement from either side of the water hazard where the disc first entered. No stoke penalty.

Uh, what? The casual obstacle (casual water) rule has not changed since the 1997 edition of the rules...

803.01 Obstacles And Relief
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

Don't confuse the casual obstacle rule with OB rules. Two different circumstances, two different rules, two different ways to play.

Thanks, Josh. Always the voice of reason. I really need to start carrying a metric tape measure in my bag.

[Drew Smith]

Check out the 2012 USDGC at the 15:35 mark.

This is correct placement.

Pretend that you push the disc down to the ground (horizontal level) after sticking up, that's the area to mark in front of the disc. Same thing for 2 meter rules.

I'm arguing that it's not correct placement. I can't find the "push the disc down" rule anywhere in the rule book.

802.03 Marking The Lie

A. The position of a thrown disc on the in-bounds playing surface marks its lie.

B. Alternatively, a mini marker disc may be used to mark the lie by placing it on the playing surface, touching the front of the thrown disc on the line of play.

Reading the rules, you can only mark the front edge of the disc and not touch the disc if the disc is above or below the playing surface. A tombstone is touching the playing surface, so is not above or below. The front edge might be above, but that's not what the rules say - it has to be the entire disc (just like OOB -all or none).

802.02 Establishing Position

C. If the disc first comes to rest above or below the playing surface, its position is on the playing surface directly below or above the disc.

[Darby OLeary]

http://www.pdga.com/marking-a-lie

...with pictures too.

[Drew Smith]

Nice!

So I guess a disc where the front is in the air and the back is touching the ground is considered "above the playing surface" - it's not "all or none".

[Patrick Harris]

If the water is casual, then use 1 meter placement from either side of the water hazard where the disc first entered. No stoke penalty.

Uh, what? The casual obstacle (casual water) rule has not changed since the 1997 edition of the rules...

803.01 Obstacles And Relief
B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

Don't confuse the casual obstacle rule with OB rules. Two different circumstances, two different rules, two different ways to play.

You are correct, it should be 5 meters, not 1 meter for casual obstacle.