Pelham's gem tarnished

[Roy Doar]

In a misguided effort to gain more distance , disguised as trying to solve some congestion issues, a fine mess has been created in the course layout ... what was a user friendly loop, needing a tweak or two , with nice signage and flow, now, by moving 2 baskets and a dozen tee signs , is anything but... except for the handful who slid these changes by w/o much, if any, oversight ...especially considering the tee improvements supplied by the town, yes? ... The walk from #4 to tee #5 is stupidly long (w/inadequate arrow signs)...and for what? A new pair of holes with some length? The hole crowding is arguably worse and the layout is confusing for anyone but those who did it...the new #5 pin spot is a decent alternative for previous #16 , and the new #6 tee is great for previous # 15 ... both were positive steps in a work-in-progress ... and even tho the current #6 pin makes for an interestingly longish hole, as part of this recent change, it's a downgrade, not an upgrade ... adding gold tees on several holes would have addressed ( and still could ) the length issues in the previous layout ... and 12 of 18 really nice professionally done signs now look like ... unprofessional. If the bulk of the players at Muldoon are happy with the current set up , well, then ... never mind ... this, then, is just a few minutes of sour grapes from the previous redesigner ... ( serves me right, huh Alan ? )

[Matt Stroika]

I feel that overall, there are a better 18 in place. I completely agree that there is a rather serious flow issue. I just hope that it is addressed before anything permanent (new tee signs, tee pads) is put in place. I don't have the answers, just providing feedback.

I noticed last week that someone tried to steal basket 12 and it is not perched halfway out of its mooring hole.

[Alan MacLean]

OMG, I sort of agree with you Roy.

If I had 3 issues at this moment with the current layout (ignoring the fact the kid in me who learned there misses the old layout).

1) We need to prune a bunch of areas. It's very frustrating to have drives land in the putting circle and then have NO look at a putt. It's one thing if it's a 2' wide 60' tall pine tree. It's another thing when it's a sea of little saplings that could be gone easily. Also the limbs protruding into the "gap" of current hole 7 is another one people I think can picture easily. The actual gap from trunk to trunk makes a gap of about 10-15' about 60' off of the tee. However, because those tiny branches poke into that space, the actual window on that hole is about 5' wide. That's borderline impossible to shape a shot on that hole.

2) I agree it's too bad about the tee signs. Those were nice, and white-out isn't the solution.

3) The layout I fully agree is loopy. If I wasn't playing in league there, I'd be lost. The loopiness is a product of three tough conditions - hole 1 must remain hole 1 and then 2,3,4 write themselves, current hole 7 should lead you to hole 8 (aka the rest of the course), and current holes 5 and 6 must play back to back but hole 6 ends in the middle of the front 9. After spending far too much company time on this, here's what I came up with...

Option A - Renumber the current holes 5, 6, 7 into 6, 7, 5 respectively. This ends you needing to get to 8 but you're standing at the end of the longest hole on the course in the middle of the front 9. One trail through the woods up behind the basket of current hole 7 can get you to 8 fairly easily. About 100-150' walk. But you'd play 7 holes prior to that very seamlessly. This is the best that I came up with.

Option B - Current holes 5 and 6 played in reverse (not numerically, but physically move the pins to the tees and make new tees where the pins were). This would let current hole 7 be hole 5, and then a new trail over to hole 6 (same number) played in reverse direction, and then current hole 5 would be new 7 in reverse direction (think of a smaller version of the original hole 11 years ago when that was the longest on the course... and of course have a tee location not tucked back 30' like it once was... and the basket would be much closer than old 11 ever was) and you'd be right back at hole 8. Some work would have to be done to the trees and hole 6 played in reverse driving out to the tall grass could be a pain.

Option C - Current holes 5 and 6 played in reverse but moved to the back 9. Play holes 1-4 as is, and then play current hole 7 as hole 5. Current 8-16 would become 6-14. New Hole 15 would be current 5 in reverse. New 16 would be 6 in reverse. And then 17 and 18 as is. Not my favorite.

Overall, this is the ultimate square peg, round hole situation. There are a few pairs of holes now with this redesign that must be linked. Yet, they start and end at odd places. Feedback is appreciated, or if you have your own ideas fire away (this goes to anyone).

What needs to happen is we need to fix the 3 problems of Pelham (brush & small trees), layout, and then signs once we have it in stone. Once we have something in stone, the signs should be the last time they ever have to be made... same thing goes for the scouts sign.

Alan

[Alan MacLean]

I feel that overall, there are a better 18 in place. I completely agree that there is a rather serious flow issue. I just hope that it is addressed before anything permanent (new tee signs, tee pads) is put in place. I don't have the answers, just providing feedback.

I noticed last week that someone tried to steal basket 12 and it is not perched halfway out of its mooring hole.

Option D - We totally change the layout. Not opposed to it. Just requires the most work by far. But there are 3 other unused lanes on the course that are a bit grown in but could be utilized - there's one going out and one coming back behind hole 9's tee, and also the "backdoor" lane of hole 16. We can't touch the main walking trail through the course, but there certainly could be a better 18 out there.

And yes, someone tried to yank out 12's and 13's basket. 12 looks a lot worse. I hate punk vandals.

[Roy Doar]

Alan, tho not your favorite, option C is the course as it should be ! If you agree,with your help, I'll exert the pressure toward re-establishing that layout ... gold tees can be added to several of the holes (4,5,7,&14) and the signs can be fixed... benches would be a worthwhile upgrade that I will support as well ... the pruning issues on #5 (not#7 as it's currently called) are worth doing as it is a nice hole ... granted it's not my home course, so my wishes hold little weight, but but to see many, many hours of work with a focus on mass appeal bushwhacked by a few locals for their own satisfaction stings more than a little ... with the right vision and "big picture" energy behind it, it really could be a nice tournament friendly course, a real asset to the community ... but, now that the general store across the street is selling out to Dun. Dos. I have my doubts

[Alan MacLean]

Alan, tho not your favorite, option C is the course as it should be ! If you agree,with your help, I'll exert the pressure toward re-establishing that layout ... gold tees can be added to several of the holes (4,5,7,&14) and the signs can be fixed... benches would be a worthwhile upgrade that I will support as well ... the pruning issues on #5 (not#7 as it's currently called) are worth doing as it is a nice hole ... granted it's not my home course, so my wishes hold little weight, but but to see many, many hours of work with a focus on mass appeal bushwhacked by a few locals for their own satisfaction stings more than a little ... with the right vision and "big picture" energy behind it, it really could be a nice tournament friendly course, a real asset to the community ... but, now that the general store across the street is selling out to Dun. Dos. I have my doubts

After thinking about it more, I can see why my "Option C" above is the best solution "flow wise". I guess for me, it's just hard to imagine how both those holes (existing 5 and 6) are going to work in reverse direction "quality of hole wise" (I totally understand flow wise, how you put those two holes before 17 & 18 and it works).

If you look at current hole 5 at the moment it's more or less a skilled drive because of that birch. You either go big over the top or throw an S-shot to the right of it and hope it comes back left. Simply switching tee/basket locations won't work because of the pin location being an "ok" pin location but a terrible tee location going in reverse. I guess I'd propose putting the tee 30' in front of where old 11 (the super long hole from 4 years ago) was, so that the drive doesn't require that 40' dump or placement shot. Of course back then on old 11 you had to choose fairways (left which was tighter and now holds a basket... or right which was more open but longer) and now I see just the right being the only one usable and we put the pin before the current tee location so the adjacent tee for current hole 8 doesn't get in the way.

Current hole 6 in reverse is the real kicker here to make in reverse. If we imagine putting the tee to the side of where the basket currently is (imagine hole 9 tee from the original short front 9 layout 4 yrs ago), and imagine the basket where the current tee is, that entire tall grass field comes right into play. It's not really right now because 95% of players can clear that. However in reverse, probably 50% of players can drive to that field. Lost disc city. Also it's an incredibly tough gap to get to the pin (where the tee is) with absolute jail on both sides. I'd love to hear suggestions as to what can be done here. Also a new path would be required to get to this tee from the prev. hole (current hole 5 in reverse).

But what I think should be done here is a TON of dialogue. For me, there's just no time that I can commit this season to untying this knot beyond the occasional rant on the NEFA forum while bored at work. All my time I can commit for course development this fall will be going to Devens to make the new 18-hole course there and make it a hotspot for Northern MA/Southern NH players. Then when spring hits, we should revamp Pelham with an A+ gameplan in place. Fix a few holes, make some lanes a bit more reasonable, finalize the layout for signs and then of course the elephant in room - better tees... and perhaps alternate tees if we feel saucy.

The best solution for the course will be the one that involves the most people that give a damn... especially if the league regulars, of which I've learned these last few years is a good amount of people, join in. If I can make it to league on time tonight I'll start seeing what people think.

[Chris Querengasser]

So I know this is an old thread, but wow. What the hell happened here? This was my favorite course now I don't plan to come back until I know some problems have been addressed. Remember years ago when people complained about the flow? This place is now their hell on earth. None of the signs are updated, threw my favorite ascent with a hyzer into the woods thinking I read the sign right. Nope. Lost my disc and went home and I rarely ever get that discouraged. it's a bummer because today was the first time I played this course in close to a year and was really excited to see tee pads. I wish they instead updated the signs and worked on the flow of the course.

[Brad Harris]

I believe new signs are in the works.

The flow is pretty terrible though. Especially the transition from 4 to 5 that forces you to walk the length of hole 7. It would really be nice if we could just redo holes 5, 6 and 7 to go in the reverse direction, then move the teepad for 8 back to where it originally was.

[Matt Stroika]

The holes are fun but, flow is most important and should be addressed before tees or tee signs.

[Chris Querengasser]

Some of the holes really are fun, but some are just miserable, but then again it's because I'm not sure where I'm going because there's no indication of where the basket could be and all I see is a wall of foliage. Even if they had what amesbury has with a picture from the tee pad with an arrow in the general direction that'd be a HUGE improvement. I honestly feel like this place is a mess. Almost like someone started got frustrated and went funk it this is fine enough. Again I know it's a free public course with volunteer help and you can really only expect so much, but it's the fact that it was at one point a great course (my favorite) that is really upsetting to me.

[Chris Mergemekes]

Great feedback guys, but I am not sure that any of the league people/ course re-re-re-designers, look at this forum. Most of the league stuff is discussed on discgolfscene

[Mike Davis]

you guys should have left it alone in the first place.

[Christopher Gerow]

And now they did another major overhaul. What was once an incredibly long hole, they removed them both and they made up by adding 4 new fairways, they failed to capitalized in lengths and the wow factor, they also move several pins 10 feet to the left, thus making almost all of the hole a RHBH favorite, most of these hole are repeative and there is no wow factor.
The only cool thing out of this overhaul is a hanging basket, pretty much suspensed 9 feet in the air.

[Matt DeAngelis]

Hanging baskets, elevated pins on a stand of some sort, and pins buried in the ground are gimmicks. Where is the clowns mouth hole?

[Eric Kevorkian]

This sounds like the Dacey Fields of New Hampshire.

Good Luck

[Luke Adolph]

In my opinion, it's actually turned into a pretty good course with a great local crew. It's 25 minutes from my house but I rarely played there before. I'll certainly be playing there more often now.

[Titan_Bariloni]

eye of the beholder

the more I am finding

[Matt Stroika]

I played Pelham for the first time since the tournament yesterday. Wow! What a fantastic job you have all done. It is the real deal and I cannot wait to play it again. Thank you.

[Mike Murphy]

I'm heading up to Muldoon this afternoon after hearing that the course is looking fantastic in comparison to years past. Looking forward to seeing how this place shaped up!

[Mike Murphy]

Nice little course. Very clean, easy to navigate, and overall a ball to play. Shot 51 felt like theres many more deuces out there.