Gardner DGC 2015 Awaiting Date for Next DRC meeting FEB/201

[Titan_Bariloni]

Archive of progression
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9535

[Titan_Bariloni]

saved for op

[Travis Reed]

Course Map:



And the Facebook group can be found at this link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1082344975111120/

[Titan_Bariloni]

Thanks Travis

[Jim Bobka]

What landmark is this near, if any? Would like to check it out at lunchtime some day....

[Trent Solomon]

What landmark is this near, if any? Would like to check it out at lunchtime some day....

Heading from Gardner to the Winch pass the bike trail on 140 and it is the steep road into the woods on the left not too far passed there.

[Titan_Bariloni]

still no word back after full plan was submitted

I have a date set in my mind to inquire on progress that date is Tuesday 6/16

lots of buzz and early I am in's

keep em rolling!

[Titan_Bariloni]

Meeting with Development Review Committee
June 29th 9:30 AM
City Hall Annex Conference Room 2nd floor

we will be discussing the proposal
answering questions
receiving info

would love some company

LMK

Thanks

[Rob Walker]

I'll try to make the meeting and explain how important it is for the area youth. The Department of Youth Services is really trying to promote Positive Youth Development, so I can speak on things from that perspective.

[Titan_Bariloni]

thanks ROB
Keep me posted on your availability

LOCALS to Gardner or great gardner
we need you

this is biggest step for this project thus far

lets ACE it

[Rob Walker]

My boss approved me to go. I have connections at the high school and the police department, so I don't know if that'll help at all.

[Tony Ruschioni]

I will show up

[Titan_Bariloni]

nice

cya all there

anyone else feel free to join
everybody can contribute something to the discussion I am sure

[Titan_Bariloni]

Good Afternoon,

Please find attached Agenda for the Development Review Meeting to be held on Monday, June 29, 2015 at 9:30 a.m.

Please acknowledge receipt of this email and attendance for this meeting.

Thank you and have a nice day!

Christine

Christine Martines Fucile

Administrative Coordinator

I responded

We will be 2nd on agenda for discussion

there will be 2 other items on new items list vas well with Chair City DGC

a new retail store and enterprise rent a car

Lets crush this!!!

[Ashburnham Gil]

How long do you expect this meeting to take i.e. if we can't make it til 10 am, can we still come?

[Titan_Bariloni]

that I am unsure of...all new for me

edit, still join we can discuss afterwards the plan, and maybe a site visit

[Titan_Bariloni]

well the meeting occurred

Rob W showed

It was a battle zone at times but overall I think it went fairly well

Most was standard

Key points

Traffic off/into 140
fire chief concern
suggestion no left turn out of parking lot

Cost of any materials for City
Time line on cost to City

ADA
I need to get exact language from City
This is a major issue
X info soon
I have plan just need exact info to proceed

Distance of course from parking lot
Fire from debris pile concern
suggestions
relocate debris via trucks to central pile near parking lot for removal

Vehicles while working
trucks allowed on access/cart road
ATV's concern City Engineer

Gate at entrance
who would open/close?
Hours of operation

Litter standard here
Trash Bins
carry in carry out?

Insurance
Blanketed under city rec?
Play at own risk suggested


Signs/Kiosk
Cost?
Timeline?
If City allows donators to be thanked via signage
suggestions
temp signs for now to allow for cost timeline and budget to better align
City will explore options for donators to be displayed
*this will allow cost of tee/parking materials to be donated rather a cost

Bathroom
1 porta potty by parking area
The city had concerns we would need bathrooms every hole
Cleared up
Suggested compostable porta potty and will seek volunteer help with that project

Most all other items were super standard or non issue to progression or cleared up at meeting

Rob did I miss any key notes/or concerns?
please try to take a look
Edit, what dept was the most opposition? can't remember the department or name

It was very fast paced and lasted about an hour of non stop questions/concerns I had little time to take notes
The minutes will be posted I am sure

Just want an early head start

Sounds brutal but to me seemed super standard really and expected

Thanks Rob!!!

[Jim Bobka]

Bathrooms at every hole? I know some of us are old, but let's get real......

nice work T

[Ashburnham Gil]

Every course has that - they're called facilitrees!

Sorry i missed the meeting- made it, but you guys had already left.

[Titan_Bariloni]

the total footage from parking area to edge of powerlines was a concern

Rachael the City mapping lady is working on a map to depict
the total out and the total width

as the course stretches down the entire edge of cart road so trying to show footage and access is not that bad for fires/etc

also getting a blown up map of the entrance and rt140, so we can have them discuss the traffic pattern they feel is safest
also want pictures of bike path rec area down street to see how that flows any locals that could do that?

I am researching the ADA regulations

thanks

[Travis Reed]

Great work Titan, good to hear it went well, wish I could've made it.

You just want some pictures of the bike path entrance/parking situation? I live pretty close and could probably snap a few this week for you when I get some free time. I'm not sure it should really be an area of big concern, the entrance is on a straight away and you can see 2,000 feet in either direction for oncoming traffic. I totally get that it's just a part of dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the approval process, but turning out of the lot has never seemed at all risky the two times I've checked it out.

[Titan_Bariloni]

I live pretty close and could probably snap a few this week for you when I get some free time. I'm not sure it should really be an area of big concern, the entrance is on a straight away and you can see 2,000 feet in either direction for oncoming traffic. I totally get that it's just a part of dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the approval process, but turning out of the lot has never seemed at all risky the two times I've checked it out.

The meeting items listed where basically a "this is a must" other standard items can be tweaked
It was great to finally get to next level of ok all the officials that need to ok are on scene

It was mentioned the project has mayor support....that will go huge way instead of it being well the negatives are a break it situation..it will be ok lets iron out any concerns then proceed

All items mentioned I feel can be overcome, of course some are out of our hands

I did not like at the meeting having to revert back to the positives constantly just felt some major negatives were coming quick and from a few serious angles....but things did settle down. I have had worse already explode at a dg course meeting so I will admit took some left hooks at the meeting

That said,back to the 140 situation

when the old school fire chief whom I assume has seen it all things some of us could not even imagine I am sure

"that section of 140 has had some of the worse accidents in my career"

so that then becomes elevated to the top priority

he also had fire access concerns as again when he says something, and I started to stray that course and quickly my brain realized shut up look concerned and nod yes

hopefully the moment of challenge did not outweigh the next 15 minutes of yes sir I agree lol

at least that is what it felt like an eternity

so the other opposition IMO suggested a no left turn back onto 140 to have them go up and find a safe place to turn

although I don't fully understand it, as stated above at this point I don't even feel comfortable suggesting another option such as clearing the front up nice, a sign, a cone, and other methods of letting people know hey slow down, but I have seen how crazy people are on that road so I do see the it won't matter factor for sure

The ADA regulation

As I am still waiting for the exact language in the regulation
I prev researched ADA in general and DG is not required to be ADA standards
I understand the standards and ruled it out

that said there is another portion of ADA I believe ADA-B where as any public REC area needs to be X % ACCESS
so with the grade being not under X% anywhere really on actual course, it breaks down to 6 holes

There is a variance ordinance we can apply for and yes our duty there, but as the official understands as he contacted them they would be seeking it to be regardless


So it was stated we could not "add" that later it needs to be a now resolved in proposal situation

There is an area on property to create 6 holes that would fit the standards but would be a huge added cost
That said we may have to shift to creating that portion first

I have contacted orgs in region when this project first started to help in thedesign process for that portion of property
I will have to reach out tothem

This really is actually a good thing rather a negative IMO as it is needed

We will need a grant IMO from somewhere to do this correctly at this point
It may be a great project for nefa to attach to

we shall see

discuss?

[Titan_Bariloni]

Titan,

Accessibility concern is addressed in 521 CMR AAB compliant, 521 CMR 19.00 Recreational facilities.

The issues on donations and insurance I will need to research more and get back to you.

I will ask the Traffic Commission to discuss/address the traffic concern and go from there.

The meeting minutes when completed remain in draft form until the Development Review Committee meets next and approves them. I can send you the draft minutes when they are completed in the next few days.

Thanks, Trevor

The Red colored text is the current issue I need to research
anyone lurking with any info please post/pm/email me

thanks

[Titan_Bariloni]

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/consumer-prot ... s-faq.html

Q: Can the owner request a variance?

A: Yes, the owner has the right to request a variance from any section of the regulations. To gain a variance, the owner must prove that it would be impracticable to comply with the regulations. Compliance is impracticable if it is technologically infeasible or the cost of compliance would be excessive without any substantial benefit to persons with disabilities. (See Q18 - 21).

when doing google searches "complaint" keeps popping up not "compliant"

the quoted text is in regards to the variance
and I now see why they would be asking for it to be compliant as the cost would not be excessive relative to the project and even if it was it would offer substantial benefits to person with disabilities

I can't really argue that as I believe it is a great benefit

The process may turn back to designing this from start!!! and seeking a grant to do it right

edit,

maybe our goal should shift to 9 holes on actual course and at least 3 of the 6 ADA holes this year
break the proposal down into this year/next year task

I will ponder and research to bring this all back together over the week

in the mean time discuss

[Jay Ballard]

Ya, the traffic issue was the first thing to pop into my head when we first started discussing this course. I think signage is a must (are there currently signs warning traffic of the pike path?). The no left turn seems like a good idea as well.

If Travis is unable to get out and take pics of the bike path parking, let me know. I'm right down the road as well.

As far as the ADA requirements, can't really speak on that as I've yet to see the area. Maybe a group of us go out soon, walk the area, and brainstorm a bit.

I know a few of us winchies drive by there every morning, so I don't think getting somebody to man the gate would be an issue.

How are the baskets proposed to be paid for? If by volunteer/donations, count me in for one.

I know I tell ya every week, but I'm close and anxious to help in any way possible.

[Trent Solomon]

Titan,
A three foot paved path down the fairway through nine holes is going to cost you way more than baskets and wouldn't be worth it. The land isn't condusive to getting a wheelchair out there. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe point them to NEDDG? What part are they most concerned with? If it is wheelchairs then the cart path cost would far exceed baskets (which I put in the proposal) and this exemption has allowed other courses to proceed when the ADA was an issue. I did a lot of research with this and found this to be the most successful way.

[Titan_Bariloni]

Trent,

the idea would not be to make course accessible but rather create in the open fieldish land closer to parking area as the grade is 10% or less

we could make all under 150ft holes...

I can work towards donation or grant I have avenues on that front to explore

It is not exactly ADA as well...It is under the premise of the entire REC project have some portion under ABB section
As most DG courses are put into already made REC lands that have X % already accessible

This being land that will become REC area needs to comply

I don't think I can argue for variance and yes it would be myself doing that as I think it is possible to make it happen and w/I reason of budget

I have personal reasons for wanting it to be accessible and actually believe the sport needs more accessibility when possible
Since it is this issue that keeps coming up I think it is time to just confront, include and construct

The best question when building a course is who will use the course and what can this course offer that others can't
This will fill a huge role in the X portion of population that can't play thus helping future funding and expansion as it will become a need

The 2nd what can this course offer different, I think relative to other courses the positive here is so huge it's almost as yeah this needs to happen!!!

For Gardner to truly say ALL can come and play and really meaning ALL sets itself just a lil above from the rest!

So we conquer and trust me we will all feel that much more satisfied when we see a group of disabled people truly enjoying our sport

edit

I have a vision for the 6 hole loop....just need to revisit the land and terrain to determine if it can become reality
thoughts become things I find time and time again

[Titan_Bariloni]

Jay,

Yes about pics maybe 2 perspectives is better anyways...also of entrance of DG course...a rock is there now preventing entrance
140 parking was discussed it is allowed as bike path does no ordinance against it currently

also pictures of parking area for DG course

I will be planning a trip out but anyone who can help via technology would be huge time saver

Yes baskets and entire project will be fundraised/donator...ironing out signage for donators as mentioned above to see what our options will be

giving someone a thanks and cya later is not as good as saying we need money and you will be honored via lifetime sign kinda thing


The gate is a thing that will be discussed further down time line but yes just in case will need 2-3 responsible people possibly for that task and it may actually become reality

don't worry I come on here every week saying soon lol

working with the city well has been like working with a city...its all new to me but feel finally next phase is coming

how ever long it takes I will continue until a yes or no is officially granted!!!!

onward

[Ashburnham Gil]

Would a putting course like the one at Maple Hill/Pyramids be a good start?

[Ashburnham Gil]

pictures of bike path rec area down street to see how that flows any locals that could do that? -Titan

Facebook with those photos on the Gardner Disc Golfers page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1082344975111120/

I see why the Fire Chief has concerns about the traffic. My wife & I were at MWCC track today & on our way home there was an accident at the intersection of Green Street & 140.