Most courses we imagine don't exist yet, this one too...

[Jason Southwick]

So today I visited a new potential course in Barre, at the Stone Cow Brewery. There's interest there for a disc golf course. I like building disc golf courses.

And it was great and a very familiar feeling exploring just a little bit of the land for the very first time: a complete and utter not knowing. Not knowing anything at all, alone in the woods, riding a mountain bike, walking a mountain bike, and being lost in every respect including literally.

Saw no disc golf holes; forgot what a disc golf hole was.

1000 acres. Somewhere there's a river I did not run into.

A persistent question, one that continues to dog me, echoes: How do you build a disc golf course?

So I started thinking about what we know. Holes 1 and 18 need to be near the bar. If there were a written test on building disc golf courses, this would be the one gimme. Beer and disc golf should get married.

Yet this fact alone decides a lot. It also appears that, at Stone Cow Brewery, a return to beer and car in the middle at Hole 9 or so is not feasible. There's a big fenced-in cattle and livestock area that needs to remain as immune to disc golf as possible.

A big problem with 1000 acres, in any scenario I can imagine, is that it's about 900 acres too much for a disc golf course.

But aside from that, How do you build a disc golf course?

That IS the question. Not sure but pretty sure you have to imagine it in your mind, very slowly as you walk the land, again and again. Maps help at the beginning, and are a good reality check for flow and balance. It's also nice to know the boundaries, yet with 1000 acres in some instance you have to decide how deep into woods players are willing to go.

But mostly, I think, you have to walk around, preferably with other people, who sometimes make brilliant suggestions which you initially reject then later adopt as your own. I'm not saying that's what I do, but that's one way to do it.

It takes a long time. You have to move beyond maps where you have it memorized.

And then, once you've decided on your layout, there's one thing that'll guarantee that the course will always get better, and that's if you're allowed to change your mind, even if it means more work. And it always means more work.

The bigger question for me today is whether to do it. Strange but after I left I started imagining it, since it's all there is to think about. Big holes. Initially one set of baskets but eventually one set of tees and two sets of baskets.

Gotta do the figure 8, so half the course is counter, the other half clock.

Tons of cutting to be done. There's trails heading, in one direction, two miles into the woods. They had a Spartan obstacle race there recently.

The roughest of drafts begins to emerge as an imaginary course.

But how do you build it? How do you figure it out?

Wait wait wait. First you have to decide to do it. I'm going there tomorrow for more info. I'll attempt to look at a map, but I haven't decided to do it.

If I knew it would get built without me, I'd walk away now. And come back and play it when it's done, and criticize it.

Which wouldn't be as good as building it, not nearly. But once you realize it can be done, and it can, you have to decide to do it. And that's a big step, maybe THE step.

I did get free beer today for not knowing anything. I tried about four different, variously hoppy, brews. Every one of them "flavored with delicious alcohol."

I wonder if they'll be cool with me pitching a tent there some nights.

[Titan_Bariloni]

So I have semi been gazing off at that land for all of this year,working close to this land.

To me the land is irrelevant currently.

I think and I say this because I have observed the people who frequent the property.
What is the goal from the course?

We can dream that they just want a course, but what I have found DG plus other businesses on land equals they want more money. It may take awhilefor that to come up but we all know what rules currently.

We can also think everyone wants some course spread across 100 acres but in all reality that will net you maybe 1-2 events a year and what 5 people a day on off peak days.

esp in it's location so close to other options free or cheaper.

even if they think they know what they want they truly won't get it.

I have a guess they want big long hard....lol that is what she said
I might be wrong but I doubt it.

In fact this is the only place in my life I couldn't justify the price.
I have totally shredded money at times on well fun things.
My GF and I stopped in to grab some steaks...small store then only us and the shopkeeper
we looked at the steaks I believe they were42 bucks a piece or something crazy.
we both had that look of yeah money is not an issue buttt daaam we gonna spend 80 bucks to go home and cook steaks that will prob taste like everyother steak.\

but it was uncomfortable to just tell the nice lady you are insane I don't care what that cow ate or where it shiiit at no frigging way....luckily someone came in and we spin moved out the door...went bought 9 dollar steaks and were stuffed and happy and could careless where that cow had shiiit at or what it ate.

The people who frequent the place are mom's who wanna feel they are better then people by saying well we only eat cows that shiiit outside and eat grass that we know where it came from type of people....not that it is a bad thing but from my encounters those type of people are Dbags not like a normal dbag but another level dbag.

so I gave it another try they have a cookout fri nightsspring/summer.....I shouldaknown this is just when all the dbags converge to all eat cows that shiiit outside.

not my cup of tea but hey dbags need a place to chill also.

oh yeah how does this relate to DG course design at the property.

I would find out who they plan/want on using the course?
Is it

a.the kids who go there
b. the cows that shiiit outside people
c. the beer drinkers
d. general public
e all of the above

IMO the general public can't afford to attend regularly esp not in that region as I would think the course would be used as a draw to upsell other items that they have.

The Spartan race was rather big deal abutters were selling parking for $50 a day and the yards were packed...the peasants literally now make side money once a year from the overspill of the strange people who pay to race in the mud a rather big sum actually when ya add that weekends cost together.

IDK it's late and I am losing my train of thought

do I think it would be awesome to have another course yeah I think so....
I guess in summary as I was trying to give ya some clarity I would dismiss the actual land and first really get to the core of the what is the purpose of this course to the land owners.

I agree about your start/end statement so very true land is useless if it does not have a connection to the start end points

Once you truly know the intent I bet you will find what you are looking for w/o getting lost.

time the most valuable thing one can have...I wish I had more of it
goodluck!

[Glenn Hause]

Good stuff Jason and Titan....sort of like eavesdropping a chat between Picasso and Rembrandt deciding on their next masterpieces.

My memories of PCC construction...get help from someone who has DG brains (Steve Dodge and Titan) , work with what mother nature offers, roll up ones sleeves and get busy...whoops, with all the thorn bushes encountered, keep sleeves up.

And we built DG at PCC to : piggyback a cool sporting trend, hold big DG events and add visibility to PCC, increase BG interest, eventually make some money. Not sure if that was the actual order, up for debate.

Best wishes and best of luck.

[Jason Southwick]

Hi Titan and Glenn. I've decided not to do it. Titan you're spot on when you recommend forgetting about the land and looking at the core reason behind it.

One thing I have to be careful of is walking the land enough times to begin to imagine a course. Once I reach that point it's hard to turn back. Building a disc golf course with complete cooperation and full backing -- like in Warren -- is still hard. There are hundreds of details to get right. Having to also navigate a complicated people and money thing would be an added challenge. And I sensed that might be the case at Stone Cow.

So I'm ready for the next one. Calgon take me away. Maybe it's that time again to start talking about courses that don't exist yet.

[Karl Molitoris]

Jason,
It takes intelligence, trusting your instincts, and strength to walk away from something you love (to do); my hat's off to you. Other opportunities will come your way....
Karl

[Jason Southwick]

Every course you do teaches you a lot. We're not quite done -- but almost -- with the current one. Building the course in Warren with the owners and regular Sunday workday crew, and with Gill and Guy, was the ideal situation for making a course. It took a year and a half and a bunch of money. Can't say how much since I wasn't the one forking it over. New tractor, new ATV and new 12x20 pro shop shop. For starters. Plus baskets, tees, signs and signposts, and those are just most of the big items.

Lots of work over lots of stages and lots of fun. Good exercise, too. And if anyone out there is thinking of making a disc golf course, remember to stretch pretty much all the time. And if volunteers show up to work, feed them lunch. It means everything.

It's amazing how, out of confusion, a disc golf course eventually unfolds, provided everyone involved has their eyes on the prize of bringing it all the way to fruition.

BTW, it's also essential that the process takes a year, so you can observe seasonal changes, such as holes being underwater in spring.

But the real question for me is where to next. Life is not that long, especially the way I live it, and there comes a time when if you're going to accomplish the things you dream about you pretty much have to find a way to make it happen.

I dunno. There are limitations. Can't be an hour or more away. Better to be north or west of Leicester, without having to drive on 495. And preferably a disc golf course that otherwise would never be built.

Cooperation, funding, official permission. Lunch on volunteer days. Warren spoiled me.

I like pay to play courses, maybe because I have one, but also because it provides motivation not just for building the course, but for maintaining it and keeping amenities at a higher level than at free courses.

Maybe the best part is building a course with people who really, really want it, for all the right reasons.

There it is.