Horrible Hole at North Calais

Ole Olander · Post by **Ole Olander** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:11 pm

I know we have some bad tees, and that Roy and others (most of NCDGA included) hate the gold tee at #10, but I didn't think we have any horrible holes at NCDGC. However, I just found this year-and-a-half old description on the PDGA D-board, in a recently reactivated thread, under the topic "Rules and Standards", "What makes a DG hole great or horrible":

"There is one hole in North Calais, Vermont where the tee shot is a 90 foot layup to a landing zone where you have to make an upshot of 400 feet to the pin. But the landing zone is all sloped and bumpy and nobody can get a good runup. Dumb."

For the life of me, I can't figure out to which hole at NC the writer refers???

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:39 pm

Paul,
I've only played your course once (2005 VT Open) so I really don't know what specific hole they're talking about, but it may be one of the holes on the back 9 where there are some doglegs where the first part is "kind of" short (either # 18, or the one that comes up to the barn, or the dogleg right then up past that lone tree in the middle). Any way you look at it, their footage is probably a little off. And their contention of "all sloped and bumpy and nobody can get a good runup" is # 1 unfounded (none of your holes exhibit those characterisitcs) and # 2 really poor because even if it WERE true, so they can't get a good runup - tough! Neither can anyone else. Maybe that's part of the challenge.
Think of it this way Paul, your course has NO horrible holes...just, perhaps, holes that that person can't play as well as some other people can.
Karl

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:25 pm

If that guy is talking about 18.. then he is not very good.. I like Karl only have played your awesome course once, (well twice) it was a tourney.

#18 was one of my favorite holes out there.

Dave McHale · Post by **Dave McHale** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:00 pm

18 also isnt a "400 foot upshot". then again, he's probably a guy who claims he can throw "400 feet"

I agree with Karl... no bad holes at N.Calais!!

David Hoey · Post by **David Hoey** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:33 pm

it sounds like they are probably just thinking of another course?

Mike Martin · Post by **Mike Martin** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:33 pm

Horrible hole and N. Calais, VT? That isn't possible.

Doug Bechtel · Post by **Doug Bechtel** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:14 pm

I bet the author was talking about Hole #10. I played that in 2005 and it took me three throws to get to the "landing zone" (probably middle tee?). (I hit one of the first trees and my disc bounced into the Hole #9 approach grass . . . then hit another tree trying to come back into the fairway . . . . ugh) Then there is the long straight throw to the pin, but it ain't 400 feet.

PAUL - I agree with others - the course is great. There ain't no bad holes, just bad throws, and you will PAY for it. Awesome course that has made me PAY, but I will always look forward to the next time I play North Calais.

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:13 pm

Whomever wrote that was obviously both physically and mentally challenged. North Calias is one of the most challenging and 'fair' courses that I have ever played. FUN FUN FUN

I can not wait for my next opportunity to play all 18 of those wonderful holes.

Rich Reilly · Post by **Rich Reilly** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:20 pm

Hi Paul,
I have to say the same as others, you have a wonderfully challeging course. Don't let one opinion get you down! All courses are a work of art by those who create them. Some people just don't appreciate art!
Change only what Paul wants to change, for the course as it stands is awesome! As soon as this years event was over I couldn't help but think, I can't wait till next year! I look forward to see ya!

~PEACE~
Rich

Jeff LaGrassa · Post by **Jeff LaGrassa** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:05 pm

Ole Olander wrote:"There is one hole in North Calais, Vermont where the tee shot is a 90 foot layup to a landing zone where you have to make an upshot of 400 feet to the pin. But the landing zone is all sloped and bumpy and nobody can get a good runup. Dumb."

For the life of me, I can't figure out to which hole at NC the writer refers???

Paul, the writer of that post was none other than Morgan Wright. Is there any reason to even give this issue a second thought?

Ole Olander · Post by **Ole Olander** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:01 pm

Yeah, Jeff, I have to admit it, I was trolling for Morgan. I was going to e-mail him directly but he doesn't supply his address. I was looking for him to come on and defend his slam against the NC course design in his rant on the PDGA D-board against a fictitious hole here. Now, that was dumb....obviously Morgan's too smart a fish to go for that bait.

Sorry to waste the bandwidth, and thanks very much to the folks who came on with the kind words about NCDGC.

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:22 am

That comment was from like 5 years ago. I remember a hole where the second leg of a dogleg was like 5 times longer than the first leg. It was a dogleg left. I'm sure you fixed it by now.

And Jeff, I'm sorry to see your brain is still made of mince pie filling. When I see your brain this time of year I reach for the whip cream.

Fred Doot · Post by **Fred Doot** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:59 am

Speaking of NC - what type of course will I be up against? With a car of little/no extra space, I have to pack a bag with appropriate discs..I'm already packing an extra bag of replaceable DX drivers for Sugarbush on Sunday, but it's always good to know what I'm up against for Saturday..

With that being said, is the course mostly open/wooded, long/short, elevation or no elevation? Could someone give me a "similar" course or two so I can relate?

I tried searching for a coursemap or scorecard but to date I've been unsuccessful in finding one..

Thank you in advance..veeeeery pumped to pop my NC cherry this weekend..

Ryan Brunelle · Post by **Ryan Brunelle** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:13 am

Yes, its wooded, open, long, short, elevated, with some flat areas. Picture the best course you have ever been to and be prepared to erase that memory. NC is breathtaking to say the least and will require every shot (and disc) you have in your bag. There is a bunch of OB and there is a good chance you will leave minus a disc or two. Plus the course has bears. It just dont get no better than this.

Fred Doot · Post by **Fred Doot** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:19 am

Better than Paw Paw or Warwick? Hmm..

Andy Gallerani · Post by **Andy Gallerani** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:21 am

Ryan Brunelle wrote:Yes, its wooded, open, long, short, elevated, with some flat areas. Picture the best course you have ever been to and be prepared to erase that memory. NC is breathtaking to say the least and will require every shot (and disc) you have in your bag. There is a bunch of OB and there is a good chance you will leave minus a disc or two. Plus the course has bears. It just dont get no better than this.

So comparable to Maple Hill? Is there any sneaky OB where you dont expect it to be as close to the fairway (sorta like the slope at Amesbury event though that isnt technically OB)? Or does the OB only come into play for really bad shots?

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:14 pm

OK,

More elevation change than either MH or Warwick. It's a totally "different type of course" than either MH or Warwick. Warwick is "groomed" (like Wickham) and thus it's tough to go up against a 7-course meal while wearing coattails, stickpins, and spats. MH is the diverse, refined, smart, upper-middle class professor. NCDGC is more like (for Doot) Paw Paw but I'd say even ruggeder (is that a word?). Kind of like the Marlboro man or a tough James Bond or CHUCK NORRIS!

Karl

Fred Doot · Post by **Fred Doot** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:24 pm

SWEEEET, considering two of my favorite courses also include Campgaw, Wolfe Woods and Hyzer Creek...Rugged is fun!

I guess I need a bag to handle a lil' bit of everything..

Dave McHale · Post by **Dave McHale** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:30 pm

bring the selection doot, calais makes you need everything at one point or another.

blackfalls · Post by **blackfalls** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:40 pm

Really consider using fairway drivers (leapord, eagle ect) and midranges(Buzz, Roc, ect) Distance is not as important as accuracy on this course. I might use a distance driver 2 times during a round.Stay on the fairways and you might score under 65. Can't wait to play this weekend!!

JB

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:10 am

North Calais is more similar to Hyzer Creek than any other course. They are like twins. Deep woods courses in north country, lots and lots and lots of elevation, no roller opportunities because all woods and no lawn. Green Mountains vs. Adirondacks? Pretty much the same thing. Long holes. Tough and rugged deep woods, lots of bugs and snakes. Bears and moose. But NC doesn't have a hole 12. Nope, no 12 at NC.

drunkentroubadour wrote:SWEEEET, considering two of my favorite courses also include Campgaw, Wolfe Woods and Hyzer Creek...Rugged is fun!

I guess I need a bag to handle a lil' bit of everything..

Shaun LaForce · Post by **Shaun LaForce** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:20 am

a 17 hole course :scratch:

.....interesting.

Morgan Wright · Post by **Morgan Wright** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:56 am

Thats not what I meant. I mean it doesnt have this hole 12 http://www.hyzercreek.com/12t.jpg

Fred Doot · Post by **Fred Doot** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:12 am

Big Moe wrote:North Calais is more similar to Hyzer Creek than any other course. They are like twins. Deep woods courses in north country, lots and lots and lots of elevation, no roller opportunities because all woods and no lawn. Green Mountains vs. Adirondacks? Pretty much the same thing. Long holes. Tough and rugged deep woods, lots of bugs and snakes. Bears and moose. But NC doesn't have a hole 12. Nope, no 12 at NC.

drunkentroubadour wrote:SWEEEET, considering two of my favorite courses also include Campgaw, Wolfe Woods and Hyzer Creek...Rugged is fun!

I guess I need a bag to handle a lil' bit of everything..

does their dial go to 11?

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:28 am

Well I don't know (about your "...no roller opportunities..." - unless, of course, the course has substantially changed since then) Morgan, I seem to recall throwing quite a few forehand Arrow roller (probably 4 or 5 a round) at the 2005 NC tournament and I did OK there, so Doot you can at least consider some rollers.
Karl

Mike Martin · Post by **Mike Martin** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:39 am

Rollers are definitely not out of the question. I watched Gary Cyr last year roll up the hill on 16 and smash the basket. One of the craziest rollers I have ever seen.

-mike

Gary Cyr · Post by **Gary Cyr** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:37 am

Funny,

I don't remember that shot Mike, but I did have to roll it up that hill during the first round this weekend,..resulting in a 10' 3 putt.

J_Disc · Post by **J_Disc** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:49 pm

I was in Gary's group. What a great shot to recover from a mediocre drive that didn't have a view around the corner. It kicked its way up the hill and almost turned around to head back down the hill, but decided to sit down right near the basket. Great 3 save. I wouldn't have even thought of the roller in that situation.

discglfr05 · Post by **discglfr05** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:40 pm

Not that it's a horrible hole or anything, but I noticed that there isn't much room for run-up on the blue tees on #16...it drops off behind the markers, leaving little space to work with. Just an FYI :wink:

Ole Olander · Post by **Ole Olander** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:44 pm

Thanks Andrew - we'll look at that one as a candidate for some of the remaining crushed ledge.

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Horrible Hole at North Calais

Horrible Hole at North Calais

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