Burlington, Ma (Simonds Park)

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:04 pm

Does anyone have a good link to or first hand experience with getting a publicly funded course proposed, approved, & built? (John B?) I've seen lots on NEFA about staging the expenditures (start with 9 holes, add tee pads/signs later, etc) but I'd love to learn the very best ways to get a foot in the door.

As a resident of Somerville I'm bummed there is no space available for a disc golf course in my town and we all know there aren't enough courses near Boston.

I'm sure it helps to be a resident of Town-X when proposing a course to its governing body but really, how much does that matter? I work in Burlington and there is a park adjacent to a forrested area (think Amesbury) which looks like it has enough space and I am assuming is owned by the town. Perhaps I need to hook up with a disc golfer living in Burlington...?

I'm relatively new to disc golf. I come from a skateboarding background and there are all sorts of "How to get a skatepark approved in your area" ready-to-print info packets available from non-profit organizations and skateboard manufacturers. Is there anything similar to this in the world of Disc Golf? I would love to find an organization like NEFA who might champion disc golf courses to many towns simultaneouly or simply provide materials that any member may use to try to get a course proposed and approved. It would also be great to have an info packet for potential private courses. There are so many farms which might love to have disc golfers dropping $5 each to play on their land during their crop's off-season.

Thoughts? Advice?

Here is Simonds Park:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q ... 3&t=h&om=1

Felix Harvey · Post by **Felix Harvey** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:09 pm

That's a large question, but a good one. In my experience, "public funds" are elusive. The first step would be defining a specific location for a course, and investigating its feasibility: Can a disc golf course work here? Once you have a particular place in mind, you must do some research: Who owns it, who currently utilizes it, what other interests must be taken into account? Of course a good question to ask is: who's going to build it and maintain it? If you find a place that's got land , staff and money, all you gotta do get them interested in the sport.

I've often theorized that the reason there aren't more courses in the Boston Area is that land is at a premium, and often the public open spaces that do exist have long histories of committee involvement and varying interests, set in their ways and perhaps resistant to change/a fringe sport like frisbee golf. Guess what, disc golf is becoming less fringe every year, and so more courses will get built.

Look on the PDGA site for a generic proposal document. Realize that every design/approval/installation will be a little different.

How about Cross Farms? I think that Town sought out the designers of Wickham(a shining light, and not "Public") to help design and build a course. Those guys are unreal but had a great plan, Now look at the fruits they're reaping. Did I mention all their hard work?

Start building a team to work on a specific project, and/or get involved in an ongoing one, and begin to learn about the work involved. Attend a work day.

Dive a little further into the discussion on this website of various courses.

Don't rule out winning the lottery, buying 20-30 acres of land, building a private course, and donating it to your municipality.

Of course I'm just scratching the surface, and talking out of my ar$$.

P.S. Good Luck!!

Shawn Mullen · Post by **Shawn Mullen** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:24 pm

Shoot me a pm with your e mail address and I'll send you a great template for a proposal.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:42 pm

Alright,

Since I am a public official in a town government, I can give you a little insight into permitting and what not.

First off, funds are elusive, very elusive. Leisure and Recreation Departments are usually given the short end of the stick when it comes to extra money.

If it is a park... thats one thing, If it is Conservation Land it is a totally different thing, its a totally different thing if it is Open Space...

Simonds Park, based on the Burlington website it is run by the Recreation Department.

Here is the guy you need to talk to: Director of Recreation, Don Roberts

My suggestion, just feel him out.

Ask questions like, how much money is available for the establishment of recreation activities in town?

Is there any plans for parks going forward in town?

Other important questions.. are there any wetlands? Priority habitat areas? On private property, (i.e. Marshall Street, Maple Hill etc) Permits for things like disc golf are surprisingly a little easier to achieve.

A disc golf course could be something that would need to be voted at a Town Meeting, in terms of allocating money to create a course.

In the end, my suggestion is to start with the recreation director, then talk to the Board Of Selectmen, or Town appointed commissioners, they should meet twice a month or something like that, and will typically have a public comment period in which anyone in town can come and say what they want to be known to the board.

Felix Harvey · Post by **Felix Harvey** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:06 pm

I did a quick guesstimate of the area based on the map, looks like you might have about 7 acres of "underutilized" area, this could be enough for nine holes, IF there aren't any sensitive areas that are of concern. In my experience, public facilities like ball fields have often been built in or around wet areas, so there may be some issues on that end, but this shouldn't scare you away. Do more research.

The PDGA recommends 20 acres for a championship caliber 18-hole course.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:11 pm

And you can always help me on mine on the cape.. :wink:

We are gonna have about 70-80 acres to play with.

And hopefully the last hole is gonna require the "longest" over water shot in New England.

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:59 pm

I just wanted to share my excitement. I had a walkthru of Simonds Park with a member of the Burlington, Ma P&R dept this morning. He is going to get me an accurate scale map of the park and then I am to mark positions for tees, baskets, and where small brush may need to be cleared.

Of course I have most of it sketched out in my mind but I would love the advice of you fine folks. Please PM me if you'd be interested in a walkthru so you can tell me how much better each hole could be if I did it your way

But seriously, I would love your input.

Once approved, this will start as a 9-hole course. They seem very open minded and excited about installing a course.

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:52 am

Nice job, Justin. I used to live in Burlington years ago, and if this is the same park that I think it is, it WILL have to be 9 or less holes. More of a pitch and putt I think, but it will serve as a good intro to the schools that are across the street (and the high school about a mile away). Plus it is across from the fire/police station and other town offices and at a fairly busy intersection, so people will see it and interest will grow fast.

Just be cautious of the walking paths, but especially Rt 3A and Bedford St when thinking about holes. I'd put the tees next to the road so you are throwing away from traffic. There's also a good pizza joint right there too, so you've got your first potential sponsor!

Let me know when you are headed over and I'd be happy walk it with you.

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:29 am

Thanks a bunch John. You're thinking of the exact place. It's funny how many natural fairways there are in those woods. It will be small but this will be the closest course to Boston which will be huge for us city-dwellers and I'm hoping proiximity to the high school will help popularity. There should be at 3 (possibly 4) 300' holes the way I've envisioned it and paced them off.

The guy from the P&R dept wanted to make sure the course wouldn't be completely in the woods because he wants us to be seen and have other park users consider picking up the game. Though he hasn't played he acts like a big advocate.

You're right about the roads. When we walked I told him my #1 concern was to avoid discs in the road and the walkways which made him pretty happy. He also liked that I didn't see any need for tree clearing but as you know the trees in those woods would require a crew to remove.

I'll get in touch with you and anyone else who PM's me when I've got the official map from the town and a date when they need a preliminary design back. I greatly appreciate your and everyone else's input.

I don't intend on being the only user of the course so I don't intend on doing this all on my own opinions. :wink:

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:27 pm

I don't think I'm thinking of the same place. I'm talking about the grassy area where the gazebo is, but you mention woods, so I am confused.

Looking at your Google map, are you talking over near the softball field to the left of 3A, or the woods near the baseball field to the right of Center St.?

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:51 pm

Excellent question. It's to the left/west of that gazebo park. Between 3A and Church Ln. The greenspaces to the bottom right and bottom left are available to us.

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if I can be more clear.

Joe Wander · Post by **Joe Wander** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:40 pm

Hi, Justin -

If you'd like to get some DG on TV in Somerville, I'd be happy to send you DVDs of Disc Golf Live video magazine. This can help raise public-awareness of the sport in your town and give local players a chance to catch some excellent action. (The next episode features the MSDGC, as well.)

Here's a link to the station:

http://www.access-scat.org/program/index.htm

Shoot me your address and I'll get a disc or two into your hands. They take DVDs at the station and accept material produced outside of the area, so there should be no worries about getting the show on.

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:10 pm

That's actually a great idea. SCAT (Somerville Cable Access TV) is supposed to be very accomodating and I've always meant to try to get some sort of cool content on one of their stations.

I'll PM you. Thanks.

Joe Wander · Post by **Joe Wander** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Just PM or email me your address, Justin, and I'll get you set up with some show DVDs.

Mass. has a ton of stations like yours and many would accept DGL when a local resident submits the show. Others who want some show DVDs can get in touch with me as well.

Best regards,

Joe

Joe Wander · Post by **Joe Wander** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:33 am

SCAT.

That may be the best station name out there.

Let me know your address and I'll get you some DVDs.

Joe

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:42 pm

Burlington finally got me the "map" which is exactly what I got from Google but on legal paper.

I PM'ed those who PM'ed me but I'd love to do a walkthru on Sat morning with anyone willing. I could probably do Sunday morning as well but a buddy and I were hoping to hit some courses early.

If you'd like to check it out this weekend or any other time I would love the input but I do need to get a design submitted soon.

-Justin
617.959.2647

rob g · Post by **rob g** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:19 pm

Justin, definitely would like to lend you a hand, but unfortunately, this weekend is locked up with work on saturday and maple hill II on sunday. But I work at hanscom afb and live in cambridge so someday after work next week could work. definitely would love to have a course that's under 30 minutes to get even if it's only 9 holes.

rob

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:36 pm

Sounds great rob. I work in Burlington so just give me a call (see above) or shoot me an email (justinATsmusicDOTorg) and we'll check it out. Having a course within 30min of Boston would be great and I'd like these 9 holes to be as attractive as possible to NEFA veterans and postential new players.

Joe Wander · Post by **Joe Wander** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:59 am

Justin - look for a pkg on Monday. Three show DVDs including the one you mentioned and the latest show, #17, just completed. Somerille should be good to go!

Episode 17 is called "East Coast" and features both the MSDGC (Ladies Skins) and Skylands Classic event DVDs, plus a look at hole 17 of the Winthrop Gold course.

Let me know how things progress.

Others interested in what their local access station options are can find many useful links here:

http://www.communitymedia.se/cat/linksus.htm

Best regards to all

Joe

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:36 pm

The board presentation finally happened tonight. I'm not sure it could have gone much better than it did. No "official" approval yet but they understand costs and would like to see $ ranges for baskets, signs, etc. They love that this is "passive exercise," will not require any large tree chopping, and deter unwanted activities in the woods. Both the board and the dept said they want to do this.

Next step is another walkthru with a board member this time to make sure we're still all on the same page as far as layout and no-go areas. This should happen in the next 2 weeks. Then I'll be back on the board's schedule in late November.

Following that next walkthru I would LOVE to do additional walks with more of you fine folks. (Thanks to everyone I've already worked with and received encouragement from.) I've played over 50 courses but I'm not pretending I know the very best 9 hole layout for this one. Please PM me with your email or post here if you'd like to help. Even if you don't think you've got great ideas I would sincerely love to share mine with you for a course I hope you will enjoy often.

:cheers:

Ranger Dave · Post by **Ranger Dave** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:26 pm

WOW! GRATS!

Ranger Dave

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:26 am

Hey thanks Ranger Dave!

Just had a walkthru with my usual Assistant Parks Director today and the grounds manager. He's keen on getting his guys in there in the next few weeks to clear out all the brush and very small trees. He had no objections to the clearing we'd like to see and no objections to the design/layout. This can only be a good sign.

I was hoping we were going to mark tee and basket locations which would make it easy for you folks to checkout the course without my walking you though. If you're interested in my current aerial course map and/or pictures of the holes please let me know as I'm happy to share.

There may be another board meeting in mid/late November so hopefully there will be more good news at that time.

David Hoey · Post by **David Hoey** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:55 am

nice!!
Good Work Justin!!
Keep it moving...

Justin Anderson · Post by **Justin Anderson** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:04 am

So it's been a year. Lot's of little things have happened but never any one item I felt was worth posting about as we've been "this" close to finishing for so long now. Thursday, the assistant director and I did the final basket position marking. Mach III's are on order and very little clearing is left to be done on holes 5 & 7. We're still discussing tee boxes.

Thanks for all the support. You know who you are but right now it's time for the obligatory written walkthru. Strap in kids!

#1) On grassy knoll next to basketball court. Open grass fairway shoots uphill over some bushes to the basket under a large tree. Good straight/fade shot for a lefty or a tight slot to hit for a righty to make the bird.
(Walk around right of softball field to next tee.)

#2) ~300' long wide open grass fairway. Tee is between large trees closest to Bedford Street. Basket behind but between large bush and tree. I would have liked to put the pin past and to the right of the large bush but there's too much chance of a rollaway onto 3A. Pavement is of course OB as well as going right of the row of trees against 3A.
(Next tee past picnic area into woods on the right.)

#3) Slight downhill in woods, tight slot on left to reach green or right hand turnover-then-fade to reach green which is on a slight slope.
(Next tee to right behind/above row of rocks.)

#4) Downhill tight shot from naturally elevated tee area to pin on path leading to the street.
(Next tee back and to the left a bit by 3-way split trunk tree.)

#5) This 2nd-longest hole might come close to 300'. An old access road makes for a wide wooded fairway. Drops down maybe 6 feet 50' before the hole with a slight bend right.
(Next tee to right towards sidewalk.)

#6) Tight short shot favoring a fade right. This is the ace run.
(Next tee towards corner of 3A and Church Lane in front of large rock between two medium trees.)

#7) Fairway heads back to right of 6's fairway towards #5. Basket is behind three gaurdian trees.
(Next tee back and to the right against Church Lane.)

#8) Fairway is open and bends left into trees where the green will be.
(Next tee is a bit of a walk to the right of #5's tee.)

#9) Fairway heads uphill with a gotcha tree square in the middle. Green is at the right corner of OB pavement.
(Follow the driveway back to the parking lot.)

Need more info? Post or PM.
Simonds Park: It's happening soon.

Jason Southwick · Post by **Jason Southwick** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:37 pm

Justin, that's an amazing achievement. If you set out to create a course from getting permission to setting it up, you realize how dedicated you have to be, and how consistent. I bet you went back periodically.

Hey, who helped? I don't care if they wish to remain anonymous, scrw them I WANNA KNOW.

The one-year jump in time from Hoey's "Go get 'em," to you coming out with hey we're about to get a course in the ground is perfect.

There's nothing left to be said but good phkn job Justin. Will the park allow hole sponsor signs?

Mach IIIs as well. Man, that's my current favorite.

Is there room for 18?

Matt Muller · Post by **Matt Muller** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:59 am

First of all, I'm really excited about a course going into Burlington. I live in Billerica, so this will be great for me.
I'm just sorry that I wasn't playing disc golf last year to help you out. But if you need a hand with anything, feel free to let me know. I'm free most weekends, so if there's something to be done, I'd be glad to help out.

-Matt-

Benny Dunlap · Post by **Benny Dunlap** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:39 pm

Nice work Justin. Your story is inspiring. Rock on with your bad self!

Steve Hartwell · Post by **Steve Hartwell** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:57 pm

Congrats, Justin - I live in North Reading and so should be by often. Your accomplishment is amazing, getting a course installed course so close to metro Boston! It's sure to spark a new groundswell of area players, who will become NEFA members, buy discs from our local purveyors, and increase the action at tournaments.

Steve

Paul Benoit · Post by **Paul Benoit** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:18 pm

Congrats Justin! Now let's get one built in the Blue Hills!

bradley · Post by **bradley** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:16 am

What's the latest in Burlington? Sounds great. I skied there last week and didn't see baskets... Looking forward to working and playing there. Blue Hills sounds really yummy. Keema, Felix and I had that fantasy for years!