The Sugarbush Resort in Warren, Vermont now has two disc golf courses designed.
Steve Brinster and I finished tweaking the Base Course on Friday. The Peak Course design was tentatively finalized yesterday. However, we anticipate a few minor changes to the Peak Course.
My design theory has always been that a good course might never be finalized. It evolves over time because the designer has an almost insatiable desire to keep making his/her course more exciting/challenging/fair etc.
The Sugarbush Resort is a project that is very exciting, but also very challenging. One thing Steve and I constantly had to keep in mind is that we were designing 2 courses that have to appeal to many different disc golfers with wide varities of skill (or no skill) levels. During our walk-thru Friday evening there was some feedback that the Base Course seemed kind of short. It needs to be short in terms of where short tees and daily pin positions are located, for the sake of resort guests that perhaps have never played a round of disc golf in their life. The long tees offer different challenges and more length. However, short layouts need not imply that a course isn't fun or isn't challenging or doesn't offer crazy variety. Steve and I believe we have come up with a great mix of holes from both the short and long tees.
Another thing to keep in mind is that for tourneys we have alternate sleeves in mind that will allow us to combine 2 holes into one and add some Par 4's and 5's. So make sure as word spreads about the Sugarbush Base Course that you remember that your tourney experience will be very different from daily play. And of course you'll need to keep in mind that if you truly want a memorable disc golf experience unlike any you've ever had, then the Peak Course is for you.
Here is what Steve Brinster posted this morning on the Skylands site:
"Sugarbush is going to be sick! The Peak Course will be the most extreme course that I have ever seen. The course is going to measure about 9000+ ft but "it plays" much shorter. Its a totally different kind of disc golf. There is trouble everywhere and the person that stays out of trouble will score the best. This course is not going to be about who gets the most birdies but who avoids the big numbers. I can't wait to hear some feed back and stories about how someone 2'd a hole or how they took an 8. Hole 15 mighty gaw is a good example of a hole at sugarbush. Whether you took a 2 or a 10 this will be one of the most memorable courses that you will ever play!"
I second that opinion. Throw away any notions or thoughts about what the length of a hole means. Here is a perfect example: We have a 300-foot hole that plays more like 420 feet, and an 800-foot hole that plays more like 450 feet. So those 2 holes play almost the same distance as each other and yet they are actually 500 feet different in length.
Once again Steve and I had some unique design challenges as we worked on the Peak Course. Given the extreme nature of Sugarbush's Lincoln Peak it was difficult to make holes really really long in actual distance without bringing into play extremely steep downhill terrain. However, I seriously doubt if anyone will complain about the lack of length or steep holes. Those are relative terms. We also needed to design a Peak Course that wouldn't be ridiculously cruel to a beginner. This course dishes out punishment equally to players of all skill levels. The better you are the longer your discs fly, which isn't always good on a downhill windy course. Steve threw one shot that might still be in flight this morning. Star practicing your downhill throws. This is Disc Golf on an unparalleled level.
One really cool aspect of the Peak Course is that you'll be able to bring your mountain bikes up the SuperBravo Express Chairlift with you and play the Peak Course on your bike!
Oh, and I forgot one minor detail:
SCENERY TO MAKE YOU DROOL....UNCONTROLLABLY....FOR HOURS...
Spectacular views. Rushing mountain streams. Wildlife. And at peak leaf-changing season, like during the week of the Sugarbush Open NT / B-Tier event, the colors will be unreal.
The Base Course and Peak Course are scheduled to open on June 30th. I'd strongly suggest that anyone considering playing in the Sugarbush Open in September either come play in the opening one-day tourney on July 29th or come up another weekend and stay at Sugarbush for a few days and check out these 2 courses.
Stay tuned for more details as we continue with this project. Special kudos to Laura Worthen and Matt from Sugarbush who were with us all 4 days of the design process this weekend. They will be spearheading the installation and are extremely psyched about Disc Golf coming to their resort. They can use any volunteer help you can lend, by the way. Special thanks also to Jen Padham for filming the design process, and to Lesli Demark for tempering the sick design thoughts that seemed to infest the cruel minds of the 2 designers (Brinster and Doyle).
Dan Doyle
PDGA #310
Warwick, NY and honorary Sugarbush, VT
Sugarbush Resort
sugarbush workday
if sugarbush scheduled a workday and barbecue for saturday, june 2nd who would be willing to assist?
scheduled opening day is june 30th. a workday will transform the course from great to superlative.
all new courses can use that extra attention as far as trimming, clearing debris, cleaning out further into off-fairway areas, making nicer walking paths, etc.
i'll announce for certain if we're doing this shortly.
thanks....
dd
scheduled opening day is june 30th. a workday will transform the course from great to superlative.
all new courses can use that extra attention as far as trimming, clearing debris, cleaning out further into off-fairway areas, making nicer walking paths, etc.
i'll announce for certain if we're doing this shortly.
thanks....
dd
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Ole Olander
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Ben Parker
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workday
sugarbush courses moving along quickly...
i'll be there all day saturday for some final design issues and to make sure everything is ready for tee pad and basket placement.
there'll be a workday tomorrow for anyone that wants to come out and see what progress we've made and help it get to the next level. early walk-thrus by some local players seem to have created a buzz.
there'll probably be a few more workdays between now and the end of june, with sugarbush dangling a few reward carrots for those that assist.
i understand that there is a little "undercurrent of discontent" that a resort operating a pay-for-play disc golf operation is asking for volunteer assistance. i have to admit that at first glance that rubs me a little bit wrong as well. but as i thought about it some more, i came to a few realizations:
sugarbush isn't gonna' fund their ski operations during a snowless winter from the disc golf greens fees. the argument that public courses are free is somewhat true, although residents property taxes fund the parks systems so it really isn't free. someone pays for maintenance one way or another.
i think the biggest argument i can throw out there about why the sugarbush project is good for the local vermont disc golfer, assuming greens fees are reasonable, is that sugarbush has a huge visibility factor. chambers of commerce hold functions there. the state tourism council has ties to sugarbush. hopefully sugarbush having 2 courses will make our sport more visible and perhaps make it easier for locals in other locations in New England to discuss viability of disc golf when they approach local governing bodies with a disc golf proposal.
having a pro shop on site and restaurants next to the 18th hole also has some value that most local courses don't offer.
the bottom line is no one is getting wealthy because sugarbush will have 2 pay-for-play courses. it's definitely a new kind of model for new england disc golf that hopefully will compliment other disc golf operations.
the more courses the better as far as most of us are concerned.
any volunteer assistance anytime during june will help make the 2 courses even more spectacular.
thanks!!!
dan doyle
i'll be there all day saturday for some final design issues and to make sure everything is ready for tee pad and basket placement.
there'll be a workday tomorrow for anyone that wants to come out and see what progress we've made and help it get to the next level. early walk-thrus by some local players seem to have created a buzz.
there'll probably be a few more workdays between now and the end of june, with sugarbush dangling a few reward carrots for those that assist.
i understand that there is a little "undercurrent of discontent" that a resort operating a pay-for-play disc golf operation is asking for volunteer assistance. i have to admit that at first glance that rubs me a little bit wrong as well. but as i thought about it some more, i came to a few realizations:
sugarbush isn't gonna' fund their ski operations during a snowless winter from the disc golf greens fees. the argument that public courses are free is somewhat true, although residents property taxes fund the parks systems so it really isn't free. someone pays for maintenance one way or another.
i think the biggest argument i can throw out there about why the sugarbush project is good for the local vermont disc golfer, assuming greens fees are reasonable, is that sugarbush has a huge visibility factor. chambers of commerce hold functions there. the state tourism council has ties to sugarbush. hopefully sugarbush having 2 courses will make our sport more visible and perhaps make it easier for locals in other locations in New England to discuss viability of disc golf when they approach local governing bodies with a disc golf proposal.
having a pro shop on site and restaurants next to the 18th hole also has some value that most local courses don't offer.
the bottom line is no one is getting wealthy because sugarbush will have 2 pay-for-play courses. it's definitely a new kind of model for new england disc golf that hopefully will compliment other disc golf operations.
the more courses the better as far as most of us are concerned.
any volunteer assistance anytime during june will help make the 2 courses even more spectacular.
thanks!!!
dan doyle
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Dave McHale
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why should volunteers assist a pay-for-play operation?
greetings.....
i'm aware of an undercurrent of sentiment among vermont disc golfers that it doesn't seem "right" that Sugarbush should seek volunteer assistance when their 2 courses will be pay-for-play (i.e proft-generating).
i suspect that this sentiment exists elsewhere when a pay-for-play course seeks volunteer help.
on one hand i absolutely can understand this sentiment. at first glance it seems kind of "icky" to me too. they're asking for disc golfers to help them out so they can charge those same disc golfers a fee to play there. why should they help when they can volunteer at a free course and play for free?
after being involved with this project for almost a year now, i am also aware of a feeling "on the street" that Sugarbush has disappointed or maybe even alienated many people over the years with their failure to follow through on what they say they will do. i have encountered that myself so i definitely understand that history. i believe however that they intend to do the right thing but between bureaucracy and multiple layers of management those intentions don't always get transformed into action. a discontinuity of management and the ski industry being so weather-dependent also wreaks havoc on good intentions.
i'd like to make a few suggestions.
The Sugarbush Resort project is a wonderful thing for our sport, regardless of your feelings about pay-for-play and the resort history itself. The Sugarbush name is very recognizable throughout the Northeast. Tourism boards, chambers of commerce, big business, etc partner with Sugarbush. Perhaps what we've accomplished at Sugarbush will make it easier for Vermont disc golfers to get their foot in the door in their local areas to get more courses approved. Hosting a National Tour event will hopefully attract media coverage. Getting a chance to come watch the best players in the world in vermont is a treat for all Vermont disc golfers.
Having bars and restaurants and real bathrooms and accomodations within a driver-throw from 2 courses is worth something, in my opinion. Riding a chairlift to the top of a ski hill and throwing the most fun shots hole after hole is worth something. Spending a long weekend for those of us more than a few hours away with the wife and kid at a nice resort is definitely worth the price of admission.
Free courses are usually not free courses. If it's public property the greens fees are included in homeowner's property taxes. it might be free for you but someone else pays for it and you volunteer to assist the property owner.
i am appealing to all vermont disc golfers to give the new management and the main contacts at sugarbush and the 2 amazing new courses a chance to succeed. if you can assist them in whatever manner suits your style that would be super. we are working on a rewards system that might help minimize the volunteer-at-a-pay-for-play dilemma.
play well with others. fondle plastic.
dan doyle
i'm aware of an undercurrent of sentiment among vermont disc golfers that it doesn't seem "right" that Sugarbush should seek volunteer assistance when their 2 courses will be pay-for-play (i.e proft-generating).
i suspect that this sentiment exists elsewhere when a pay-for-play course seeks volunteer help.
on one hand i absolutely can understand this sentiment. at first glance it seems kind of "icky" to me too. they're asking for disc golfers to help them out so they can charge those same disc golfers a fee to play there. why should they help when they can volunteer at a free course and play for free?
after being involved with this project for almost a year now, i am also aware of a feeling "on the street" that Sugarbush has disappointed or maybe even alienated many people over the years with their failure to follow through on what they say they will do. i have encountered that myself so i definitely understand that history. i believe however that they intend to do the right thing but between bureaucracy and multiple layers of management those intentions don't always get transformed into action. a discontinuity of management and the ski industry being so weather-dependent also wreaks havoc on good intentions.
i'd like to make a few suggestions.
The Sugarbush Resort project is a wonderful thing for our sport, regardless of your feelings about pay-for-play and the resort history itself. The Sugarbush name is very recognizable throughout the Northeast. Tourism boards, chambers of commerce, big business, etc partner with Sugarbush. Perhaps what we've accomplished at Sugarbush will make it easier for Vermont disc golfers to get their foot in the door in their local areas to get more courses approved. Hosting a National Tour event will hopefully attract media coverage. Getting a chance to come watch the best players in the world in vermont is a treat for all Vermont disc golfers.
Having bars and restaurants and real bathrooms and accomodations within a driver-throw from 2 courses is worth something, in my opinion. Riding a chairlift to the top of a ski hill and throwing the most fun shots hole after hole is worth something. Spending a long weekend for those of us more than a few hours away with the wife and kid at a nice resort is definitely worth the price of admission.
Free courses are usually not free courses. If it's public property the greens fees are included in homeowner's property taxes. it might be free for you but someone else pays for it and you volunteer to assist the property owner.
i am appealing to all vermont disc golfers to give the new management and the main contacts at sugarbush and the 2 amazing new courses a chance to succeed. if you can assist them in whatever manner suits your style that would be super. we are working on a rewards system that might help minimize the volunteer-at-a-pay-for-play dilemma.
play well with others. fondle plastic.
dan doyle
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Ben Parker
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Hey Dan,
I think that is a great plan. I know that I have also heard that many disc golfers that I know were not very interested in volunteering so they could pay–to-play later. If there was some option of giving day or season passes for volunteer work I think that it would also be more attractive.
I can also attest to the busy schedule of the GMDGC and all Vermont disc golfers. We are currently working on several other course proposals and installations and our time is limited. I think that everyone is excited about Sugarbush, but since we already have club projects underway, the ‘bush is not our first priority. There is also the pesky problem of wanting to play as much disc golf as possible and Vermonter’s are traveling to tournaments and playing more often. I think that this is something that many disc golfers struggle to balance. Am I giving back to the sport enough, and am I spending enough time playing this great game with my friends?
I think that is a great plan. I know that I have also heard that many disc golfers that I know were not very interested in volunteering so they could pay–to-play later. If there was some option of giving day or season passes for volunteer work I think that it would also be more attractive.
I can also attest to the busy schedule of the GMDGC and all Vermont disc golfers. We are currently working on several other course proposals and installations and our time is limited. I think that everyone is excited about Sugarbush, but since we already have club projects underway, the ‘bush is not our first priority. There is also the pesky problem of wanting to play as much disc golf as possible and Vermonter’s are traveling to tournaments and playing more often. I think that this is something that many disc golfers struggle to balance. Am I giving back to the sport enough, and am I spending enough time playing this great game with my friends?
[url=http://www.gmdgc.org]Green Mountain Disc Golf Club[/url]
baskets are in the ground
as i write this baskets are being installed at sugarbush.
the plan is to have 18 baskets in the ground by this weekend.
dd
the plan is to have 18 baskets in the ground by this weekend.
dd
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Dave Townsend
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update time
Update Time 06-13-07
Almost all of the sleeves are in the ground on the Base Course. Some sleeves are in the ground on the Peak Course. A June 30 Opening is still a reality.
Tee signs are being fabricated. Work on tee pads will begin today. Sugarbush is experimenting with an incredible new product that PDGA Marketing Director John Duesler turned us on to. It is an environmentally-friendly sand-like product that when mixed with soil creates a tartan-like surface potentially ideal for tee pads. Among its current applications is that it is used by the Air Force in desert-like areas to create landing strips for aircraft. If during our experimental phase we like the results we'll most likely be able to use this product for all 72 tee pads (2 courses of 18 holes times 2 tees per hole.
All Base Course ski trails being used as disc golf fairways are being mowed and bush-wacked today. Work continues on manicuring wooded paths and fairways.
Player Packs for the Opening event in late July are being worked out.
dandoyle
Almost all of the sleeves are in the ground on the Base Course. Some sleeves are in the ground on the Peak Course. A June 30 Opening is still a reality.
Tee signs are being fabricated. Work on tee pads will begin today. Sugarbush is experimenting with an incredible new product that PDGA Marketing Director John Duesler turned us on to. It is an environmentally-friendly sand-like product that when mixed with soil creates a tartan-like surface potentially ideal for tee pads. Among its current applications is that it is used by the Air Force in desert-like areas to create landing strips for aircraft. If during our experimental phase we like the results we'll most likely be able to use this product for all 72 tee pads (2 courses of 18 holes times 2 tees per hole.
All Base Course ski trails being used as disc golf fairways are being mowed and bush-wacked today. Work continues on manicuring wooded paths and fairways.
Player Packs for the Opening event in late July are being worked out.
dandoyle
35 baskets are planted
35 baskets are in the ground at Sugarbush....!!! The only holdout is #18 on the Peak Course, which will be in the ground by this weekend's opening.
Speaking of which.....
Please go to www.sugarbush.com to find out what's happening at Sugarbush for the grand opening this weekend. There'll be live music saturday afternoon and Innova is sending a rep there as well.
The Peak course will be a disc golfing experience unlike any other. Can you say "long downhill shots"?
Don't forget to register for the Sugarbush Summer Celebration on July 29th. You can register via the Sugarbush site as well.
Speaking of which.....
Please go to www.sugarbush.com to find out what's happening at Sugarbush for the grand opening this weekend. There'll be live music saturday afternoon and Innova is sending a rep there as well.
The Peak course will be a disc golfing experience unlike any other. Can you say "long downhill shots"?
Don't forget to register for the Sugarbush Summer Celebration on July 29th. You can register via the Sugarbush site as well.
still on for this weekend?
If the festivities are still in order, I am there. Can I just show up and enjoy, or does any type of registration need to happen? I will also be camping out for the weekend if anyone wants to join.
just show up
Anyone that is interested in checking out the course at the grand opening can just show up.
course is supposedly looking and playing great......
course is supposedly looking and playing great......