2007-2008 TEAM CHALLENGE Thread

[Steve Solbo]

It's that time of the year again. Team Challenge!

Me and Joe talked for a minute during Pokerpalooza round 2, where Joe was well on his way to tying the course record, and I was well uhhhh.... nevermind....

This will serve as the idea/brainstorming/trash talking thread, another thread will open once we have schedules etc finalized.

Here's some preliminary thoughts.

8 vs. 8 this year. Due to team sizes last year, and some griping from certain teams about numbers of players, lets up the roster size. Go to 8 mandatory, (can be smaller, or larger! if team captains agree.)

No challenges in Dec. (weather is just too hectic, and late Nov. into December is always a pain, Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanzaa, Chinese New Year, etc...

Neutral challenges only, (This is my idea) with the influx of new teams possibly from far away, (W. Connecticut) we will need more neutral challenges. I say team captains agree on a place, time and number on a course that is in between for all courses... traveling to another teams home course to get whipped has gotten old. And home course advantage is a huge edge, (I think the golfers in this league are good enough, that 1 team playing at home is TOO much of an edge.) Look at Wick, they didnt get to play at home till finals last year, and still whooped all our behinds! We can eliminate the long drives to the Cape to play 4 hours at Burgess!

Challenge finals: I think 1st place should have an advantage, but not home course... it's enough that they are getting a stroke advantage, I say we play it more like WORST team decides course, starts with biggest disadvantage. OR, 1st decides home course everyone starts at 0.

Any other thoughts are welcome, as well as what teams are gonna be in this year... lets see some regional teams! North Shore? Frizzaks? W. Mass?

[discglfr05]

I like the neutral challenge sites idea. I highly encourage new teams to form and join in this ever growing off season event...it really is a fun time and makes the off season something to look forward to.

As far as no challenges in Dec, I wouldn't make it a hardened rule, just an advisory....some teams actually may be able to pull it off....what better way to relieve some holiday stress and test out those "early xmas presents" But overall, I agree that it's a busy time of year and challenges shouldn't be mandatory for that month...perhaps we can use it as a bonus points month or something like that?...ideas?

Start getting your rosters together and develop those incentive laden contracts for the big guns...free agency starts NOW!

[Todd Lapham]

-I definitely like the neutral course idea.

-I like idea of worst team hosts and starts at a disadvantage. Should make things interesting. Or winning team picks a course that's not their own (or wick ) and everyone else moves up two points or something. So number 1 is essentially buying what course with a birdie and starts tied with second place, third is -2, fourth -4...

-I say it's one birdie behind this year, not one point. So winning team starts even, second place -2, third -4, etc.

-No bonus points, made things way to confusing.

-We need to discuss tie breakers, I'd say default to Head to Head results.

-As Drew said no mando December challenge, but it's more than allowable obviously.

-Captains negotiate format(stroke, skins, stableford), team size, what course etc. So basically every team challenge could be different.

[John Mucciarone]

Style of play....stroke, skins, stableford?

Anyone think we should opt for one approach,
it would provide more statistical analysis for the math nerds.
(Steve Solbo is 6-3 in Match Play for instance, not +22. Which is a good score I think?)

I vote for all Match-Play. Its essential to the Team game.
Stableford is whack! Its used once a year in real golf (the International)but otherwise all team play is Stroke and Match Play.

Another option is singles as Stroke Play, still 1 point for a victory, and Doubles as Match Play.
C'mon, its fun, its different, match play.

Next question would be matchups:
Does NEFA still keep our rankings updated?
Would that be a better measuring stick?
The point is for like-skilled players to compete, not win by 8 holes.

Just some thoughts.....looking forward to winter.

[James Lane]

Like neutral course option I think this was discussed by many last year

I guess I am indifferent to style... as long as it allows the day's better golfer to win

Matchups are a big part of our strategy .. I liked when one team throws a name out, then the other matches it. Then the second team throws a name out , etc. flip a coin or similar to see who goes first, winner gets option.
I like picking matchups on the spot, but I'd like to hear some options

[Steve Solbo]

Yeah John, I think we will definitely stick with Match Play, unless of course we have 4 and 5 way challenges, although, I think those should be thrown out this year too... I think it gummed up tiebreakers and what not at the end of the year.

Keep the ideas coming.

For one, I know Team Burgess will be back for 07-08' we have more people this year too!

[John Mucciarone]

Team Womp is returning too, backed by the power of our invisible course.
(we should at least make an object course Drew)

Steve, Josh will fit in great with our team. Thanks.

I think the jump-in matches also gummed up the works.
Perhaps we can have a multi-team nuetral site event,
just send half off the back 9, the rest off the front and
we can all be out together, have lunch together, etc
but play our own matches.

On the spot picking is cool with me too.

Do we start in October ??? NEFA Finals are in September this year.

[Steve Solbo]

haha.

Rogers aint goin no where.

Yes, plan is to start in Oct.

main reason I think neutral course between teams is the fact that scheduling was a pain in the behind last year, and I personally think some teams did have easier schedules than others, as well as trying to juggle a team with NO home course, and one that had a home course, yet couldnt play it till finals.

Also, tiebreakers should go to head to head only, no incentive for jumping in, I think that made a difference on seeding last year in a negative way.

My main point is that all the teams involved in this have good enough players to play anywhere. Sure, if a team wants to take on Buff @ Buff, go for it. More power to ya. Over the first 2 years of this challenge league we have all seen how difficult it is to win on someone elses home turf... even the little pitch and putt known as Burgess

I also think we should stick to charging PER team, with a minimum of 8 players being on a team, max of 12-14 (This should ease larger team concerns) even though I was the biggest apologist for charging per player last year.

Finals: im really liking the option of having the worst team select the course. and having them start the furthest back, which should also altered this year... more like 5 stroke difference between teams. that way you REALLY gotta stress the regular season, or absolutely blow it up as a team at finals.

[discglfr05]

as well as trying to juggle a team with NO home course.

Team Womp's homecourse is Borderland....that was established last year and won't change this year. Also, we are changing our name....will advise.

[Steve Solbo]

as well as trying to juggle a team with NO home course.

Team Womp's homecourse is Borderland....that was established last year and won't change this year. Also, we are changing our name....will advise.

Personally, I think that should change.

Or call yourselves Borderland B. Also it wont matter this year, as I think the neutral course thing will catch on, and there will be no need for "Home" Courses rather than for a "Team Name"

Heck. Wick got by pretty well 2 years in a row not being able to play their "home" course.

Side note: whatever happened with the proposal over at Wompatuck, seeing as I now work only 4 miles away from there...

[discglfr05]

as well as trying to juggle a team with NO home course.

Team Womp's homecourse is Borderland....that was established last year and won't change this year. Also, we are changing our name....will advise.

Personally, I think that should change...

What should change?


The proposal for Wompatuck is still open. Seeing as I live on Cape Cod, I simply don't have the time or resources to pursue a course at Wompatuck State park which is located in Hingham...over an hour from where I live. I have tried to find someone who can take over the proposal and there has been sporatic interest...at this time however, I am not the lead man on the proposal and the proposal itself is stagnant. We'll let everyone know what our new name is when we come up with one.

[Steve Solbo]

Nevermind.

On a side note: Where's the new blood?

North Shore? I know you guys have enough good players up there to form a team.. come on!

[discglfr05]

Nevermind.

If you were inquiring about changing our home course I guess it doesn't really matter seeing as we're pushing for neutral course challenges. We're probably one of the only teams whose members are spread out from the Cape to North and South shore, but the one course we all play semi-regularly and the one that is most centrally located for all of us is Borderland..pretty simple

[Steve Solbo]

Doesnt really matter, unless we go with a format more like last years.

Essentially having (2) teams from the same home course makes scheduling very interesting and tricky.

[discglfr05]

Shouldn't be too problematic....I think we should encourage other teams to join from the same courses....Wick II, Buff II, MH II, etc, that way, we're not limiting anything or saying that you haveto have your own course to form a team...not the most inclusive approach to an event where we're trying to encourage more teams to participate.

[Steve Solbo]

I agree. More Teams out westwould be the best case scenario...

Frizzaks? no comment yet.

[Shane Peters]

What about Wick I and II? Since it is possible the mando is 8 it would be cool to have two teams. I think there are definitly enough wickites to do it.

[Allen Smith]

I agree Shane, I may not be in the next 8 players at Wick, but I'd at least like a shot.

I still say if worst comes to worse we can just call it Team Cross Farms or Team Panthorn even if it is unofficially Wick II. Then we could challenge teams at Wickham and it would still technically be a neutral course. Oh wait better keep that plan a secret.

[Steve Solbo]

Allen and Shane, we are urging new teams to hop aboard, every team will be present at finals, which has been a blast the last 2 years.

Team Cross Farms would be ideal, I say one of you start it up.

Last year Team Wompatuck, (which there is no course) played out of borderland...

Due to Wick being closed, I would urge you to hail from Tolland... therefore if we have to go with the home course format we went with last year, you guys would have one!

[Stephen Ditter]

Some players on Wick I were thinking about forming Wick II to increase playing time. I guess we have to know what their status is. Last years Team Wick players list which team you are interested in playing on. If the matches are going to be 8 vs. 8 I would like atleast 10 to 12 players on Wick I. Current 2007 team players drop me a PM if you are staying on the team.

-ditterman

[Shawn Mullen]

agree Shane, I may not be in the next 8 players at Wick, but I'd at least like a shot.

I still say if worst comes to worse we can just call it Team Cross Farms or Team Panthorn even if it is unofficially Wick II. Then we could challenge teams at Wickham and it would still technically be a neutral course. Oh wait better keep that plan a secret.

I'd like a shot to "try out" for one of these teams as well. With team wick being pretty stacked up right now with really good players that I don't have a shot in hell at pushing aside (well maybee on a good day for me, bad day for them) a second team would be great.

[Steve Solbo]

As it stands today. Team Burgess:

1. Brian "Golden Child" Harrington
2. Josh "I kill deer, and beer!" Rogers
3. Todd "Lazer Beam" Lapham
4. Steve "Solbolicious"
5. Matt "the DR." Mederios
6. Andy "the quiet assassin" King
7. Troy "T-Monkey" Manni
8. "Loud" Drew Austin

[discglfr05]

Allen/Shawn,

Definitely pursue forming new teams...and seeing as how this year's format is going to be geared towards neutral site challenges, call your team whatever you want...doesn't necessarily haveto reflect a course name with a II or III after it, you have full licence to get creative.

[Steve Solbo]

Allen/Shawn,

Definitely pursue forming new teams...and seeing as how this year's format is going to be geared towards neutral site challenges, call your team whatever you want...doesn't necessarily haveto reflect a course name with a II or III after it, you have full licence to get creative.

Well, I wouldnt go that far just yet Drew, All teams have not spoken to format as far as neutrality goes, I want this to be a league decision not single decision.

But if the Frizzaks were gonna join, and you have Borderlands grabbing players from everywhere, I would assume you are safe to name your team whatever you please!

[Joe Yaskis]

Wo. Slow down my man. Team Buff will kill it this year. I will have to object to neutral course challenges, keep it the same as last year. It went very smooooooooooooth. 2 home, 2 away one neutral, then finals.

It would be too difficult to determine what course was NEuTral, my opinion.

Where are you Frizzaks?

Cranbury Park?

Official Team Challenge start date is in October.

Better payouts, better prizes, and learning experiences for all teams that play Buffumville.

[Dave McHale]

i realize this is somewhat different than what NEFA's Team Challenge has become currently, but in the Central NY region they have events that are part of the ACES series (dont know what the acronym stands for). Long story short though, players "register" as belonging to one course or another, and simply play in the tournament as normal. Based on scores, teams earn set amounts of points. Series total for each course wins the end of season.

Perhaps adopting a similar format, where Team Challenge "tournaments" could occur, would allow different courses to host events throughout the fall/winter/early spring season. It would allow any and all teams who were available, even if it were with a scant few players, to attend and try and contribute to the team's final standings. "Rosters" could perhaps still have a limit and it could be worked out that the top 4 (5? 6? whatever) players from each course would be the ones who's points were tallied.

True the system would SLIGHTLY favor those teams who were able to send players more frequently, but it would also favor the spirit of inclusion and if each course hosted AN event it would spread things around and get rid of a lot of the discussion surrounding how to pick locations when matchups happen.

I'm not even in this challenge anymore, but it's just a thought I figured I would throw out there

[Steve Solbo]

Joe,

As much as I liked last years format... I think we should go to more flexibility.

To schedule this year, I was simply going to flip schedules from last year, meaning, for instance, Borderland played @ Burgess, therefore, we are @ Borderland this year... @ Wompatuck, Capt's Choice vs. Buff, Home vs. Maple Hill, and neutral vs. Wick.

Again, having multiple teams hailing from the same courses makes scheduling a biiiiatch. This year Womp is looking at, vs. Buff (home), vs. Burg (home), neutral vs. Wick, Capt's choice vs. Borderland, @ Mape... very um well boring... But last year, it took me about 4 drafts to get the schedule right.

Also, with the inclusion of more teams, comes the arguement about strength of schedule, and furthermore tiebreakers in the event we end up with 2 teams tied that didnt play each other, and where finals is to be held.

Personally. I think we should declare a Finals location NOW. The more I think of it, I think we should have the top 4 teams playoff for first prize.

Have a consolation bracket for teams that dont make it, and of course have tons of beer, and food, and CTP's that other teams can win to make it worth their while. I remember first year, this was the though, top 4 playoffs, single match play. 1 day.

[Ryan Brunelle]

I wouldnt hold your breath waiting for a Cranbury/Frizzak team. In theory, we obviously would have had the most dominant team ( ) in team challenge history, but our big arm contingent is quickly fading. Lets recap:

Sjur - moved to Norway. May prove a bit costly to fly back for team challenges
Bard - still touring (in his head)
Bobby Coppertwot - turned pro fisherman. He'll be back but who knows when (remember last year he disappeared to become a pro poker player for a few months)
Jeff Cahill - ?? possibly holding bobbys beer while he reels in the big one
Matt Buono - Surprisingly the only Frizzak I have seen in the last couple of weeks.
Jon Flores - MIA. Rumor has it he joined the army (really)
Adam Goodman - defected to waveny
Shane S-T - California (college)
Will Kriealot - quitter (switched to ball golf)
John Debois - he keeps showing up, but who the hell knows where his home course his. Plus he's not allowed to play on weekends.
Smolin - Newlywed (screwed)
ColinK - married without the ring - sad story
RyanB - I'm still riding the "i've got a newborn" excuse. Just wait until #2 comes along.

So that leaves Bill & Billy Dunne. Now, while Billy could easily take most of NEFA down at this point, a two man team aint gonna cut it. Sorry boys, probably not this year.

[Steve Solbo]

Dave I like your idea a bit too.

But I think we want to try and stick to the roots as much as possible.

Roots being representing a home team/course.

[Bill Dunne]

Great post Ryan.