tyngsboro course update

steve · Post by **steve** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:31 pm

I did a walk-through today with 2 people from the conservation commission and trails committee. we looked at two properties, and both look good, although one, the "hunter property" seems more suitable because there's available parking and it seems like it would need less clearing than the other, the "bell property". the hunter property runs along the merrimack river, and includes forest land and some fields that are currently being leased (they think) to local farmers for lack of better ideas for using the land.

the advantage of the bell property is that it abuts (sp?) the tyngs. high & junior schools.

both pieces of land seem to have at least 20 acres, although the two commissioners accompanying me 1) had no trail maps, 2) were unsure of the status of the land re conservation restrictions, 3) did not know the size of the parcels, and 4) did not know the boundaries. that notwithstanding, they were both interested in the idea of a disc golf course, and their husbands are intrigued as well. the 2004 msdgc dvd is making the rounds of the commission, and they have several nefa newsletters, disc golf world news mags, and lots of online material. they understand that this would be a very positive addition to the community. they also inquired about local volunteers to help put in the course, and there are always boy scouts looking for eagle scout projects (although i'm not keen on working with an organization that would ban my son from membership).

so now the commissioners will work on their end to answer the above questions, and i plan to contact the conservation director to get permission to go onto the hunter property with a few baskets, scope out a few holes, and then have some members of the conservation & rec commissions down to see what a prospective course might look like.

if anyone wants to get involved, i invite you to join the meetup group at [url]disgolf.meetup.com/40[/url].

-steve

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:43 pm

Nice, Steve. Let me know the next time you go out there.

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:52 pm

may be putting something together thanksgiving weekend; i'm thinking scope it out friday, do the demo saturday or scope sat/ demo sun. what's everyone's schedule like?

Adam Goodman · Post by **Adam Goodman** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:46 am

Hey Steve, where is this potential course?

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:59 am

If you need clarification from a Conservation Stand point contact me, I am an Agent down on the Cape and work for one of the busiest commissions in the state. I could most likely give you a pretty good idea about how they will rule depending on the type of land it is, "conservation restriction", or actually conservation land... there is a difference. by the way, the commission might actually have some monies for possible baskets, Ive been looking into possibly getting the ball rolling on a course in Mashpee...

we have TONS of acreage and alot of money that is for Conservation Land Acquisition, or Conservation Land Management.

contact me at conservation@ci.mashpee.ma.us

steve · Post by **steve** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:15 am

the bell property is near tyngsboro junior & senior high schools, and the hunter property is along the west bank of the merrimack river, near parlee farm.

regarding restrictions, at this point it seems to be only a matter of the commission meeting and getting their act together. the commissioners with whom i met just happened to be available that day for the meeting, and did not have the facts at hand that other members might have had.

one good thing that i heard is that the "restrictions" that may come into play here are by-laws, not hard-&-fast rules, and therefore subject to some interpretation and bending. what we also have going for us is that the recreation comm previously proposed building a tennis facility on the land, and that was declined by the commission. (i took the opportunity to point out that DG is cheaper and serves much more of the population).

tell me more about these "monies" of which you speak. it sounds like you're suggesting i can get funding from a cape cod conservation group; please clarify. money is obviously going to be one obstacle; although i've been told off the record that there may be some "community preservation" bucks available. right now the priority is getting permission to use the land. we'll burn the other bridges when we get there! :scratch:

-steve

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:55 pm

Big Black Dog, the land is in Tyngsboro, MA (on the NH border south of Nashua).

Steve, I will be around T-Day weekend. Call me if things happen.

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:09 pm

By monies, I meant in Mashpee... sorry for the confusion. But for the most part, my assumption is that they will require setbacks off resource areas, and allow for "upland" disc golf, but not "wetland" disc golf. They can get lenient, but cant get more lax than the State Laws, you can only get more strict from the state laws.

Anyways, feel free to call if you need some help convincing commissioner types.... I do it for a living...

-Steve-O

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:15 pm

Well, I just read your town wetland bylaw.. its 10 pages.. compared to the one I enforce which is around 100.

I figured this would be the case... It basically goes back to the state regs as a crutch, there are no specific "tougher" regualtions enforced by the Commission which is good. It basically means they will allow you to do anything that will not "alter" a resource area protected by the Wetlands Protection act, and M.G.L 310 CMR 10.00, which is about 150 pages, but if i have some time, maybe I can set up a time to come out there and give you an idea of what I think they would settle upon in some sticky issues.

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:48 pm

thanks; we may be getting together thanksgiving weekend to do a proof-of-concept demo, but i won't know until wednesday. i'll keep everyone posted.

-steve

nik · Post by **nik** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:03 am

I could be there to check ot out on saturday or sunday let us know. I can bring a basket too.

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:15 am

When is this going down?

Matt

steve · Post by **steve** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:36 pm

i'll post as soon as i know. i would have imagined they'd have contacted me by now (the meeting was tuesday), so i'm assuming it's not happening this weekend.

-steve

steve · Post by **steve** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:13 pm

they want to meet sunday at 2pm. anyone around?
-steve

Matt Stroika · Post by **Matt Stroika** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:37 am

I would like to meet at noon. Where do I go?

steve · Post by **steve** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:28 pm

well, it's off for now, because i didn't hear back from anyone until this afternoon, and I'd already called to cancel. I apologize for the short notice of these get-togethers; the people we're working with don't call me until the last minute.

i'll post again when i hear something,
-steve

steve · Post by **steve** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:24 pm

hi folks,

got in touch with my contact at the conservation commission; they've had a recent spate of very contentious meetings about topics unrelated to our interests, and haven't talked about the project. It has been discussed at the Trails Subcommittee, and they are not unfriendly to the idea.

So, the basic reason for getting in touch with Lucy was to get them thinking about the project again, and it seems to have worked; I'm expecting to get some more detailed acreage info about one of the proposed properties tomorrow. I'll keep everyone posted!

-steve

steve · Post by **steve** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:51 pm

I spoke to Lucy again this week, she brought up the project again, and the info packet (including the MSDGC DVD) has been passed over to other commission members. I’m to contact the conservation director this week about the next step to take. Everyone seems comfortable with the idea, so now I need to work on deciding which land parcel to use, and getting the actual permission to use the land. I have no idea how this works, so I’ll be in touch as soon as I find anything out.

The photo in the next message shows the Hunter property and an adjacent parcel. This is one of the areas under consideration; this and another property are just sitting there waiting for an idea for utilization.

The area has potential, but is very overgrown- so much, in fact, that I think a demo on the actual property is not practical. It is pretty much flat, with elevation changes of less than 10-15 ft, in my estimation.

I haven’t been down on this property with anyone who knows the actual boundaries; the following is the result of visiting the site with someone who had a general idea of the property, as well as conversations with the conservation director, who is also not sure of the exact situation (this is apparently a new acquisition for the conservation comission). So, with that caveat:

In the photo, the area encompassed by the blue, yellow and pink lines is the total of two conservation properties. Yellow is what they’re thinking of allowing us to use; totaling just about 20 acres. Blue is agricultural field, which is leased out for at least another 3 years to farmers. Pink is grassy area; they’re not sure whether we can use it yet. Orange line shows route from intersection of 3A and 113 (note tyngsborough bridge): North on 3A, right on Farwell (towards Parlee Farm), right on River, cross train tracks and parking on left. Trail head is on the right side of the road, on left side of field about 30 feet down (marked w/ tyngsborough conservation marker).

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:24 pm

Here you go Steve, plus a link to your group. (North is up.)

http://discgolf.meetup.com/40/photos/64545/295212/

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:10 am

ok. the property the commission wants us to use is the Barr property, 20 acres adjacent to Tyngs. High School. The area is accessed through a trail on school property, the passage rights through which will be negotiated. Lori, the conservation director, will look into getting permission to use the land, etc. The last thing she said in a recent email was "This is a very intriguing idea. Please don't give up on us yet."

boundaries are approximate; red area is ours, yellow is school's; maybe ours to use. white line across top is state line- how's this: if you're disc lands in NH, you're OB!

John Borelli · Post by **John Borelli** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:36 pm

Steve -- I think you have to change your user profile for "Always allow HTML" to "yes" to make your links work.

Dave McHale · Post by **Dave McHale** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:17 pm

he needs to enable BBCode, not html. then the image will display properly

steve · Post by **steve** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:16 pm

Hi folks,

got an email today from lucy, who's on the forests and trails committee. they discussed a disc golf course in their most recent meeting, and lucy was writing to tell me there is "full support" for the idea from them, and that the dvd and web stuff i put together is a big hit.

Also, I'm expecting to hear from lori (the conservation director) soon about steps needed to get permission from the town to use the land.

I went up and stomped around on the parcel yesterday; i think it has a lot of potential, but there's going to have to be some work done to clear out a bunch of crap in there. there's some elevation changes, stone walls, an old 17th century cemetery (halloween doubles, anyone?) that's probably off limits, meandering streams a la pyramids, dense woods, less dense woods, and 2 fields (not sure about one, though- one of the abutters has put a bunch of bathtub liners in the field!?!)

Anyway, I put out a few flags with "GLDGA" (that is, "us") for some possible tee and basket locations, but I'm still not exactly sure where the boundaries are on the ground.

-steve

steve · Post by **steve** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:01 pm

here's the latest communique from tyngsborough conservation:

Hi Steve,

This project has come down to me. I have discussed this with the
Town Administrator and she thinks it is a worthwhile endeavor. I
have to check the deed and the grant in which the land was purchased
under, then if everything is fine discuss the matter with the school
committee and the Board of Selectmen. Tension is high right now
between the Town and the School with budget cuts and such. I'm
trying.

I'll let you know when I know more.

steve · Post by **steve** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:17 am

We seem to be moving forward here in Tyngsborough; I was asked yesterday to provide a layout proposal for the land parcel in question to the town Selectmen.

I told the Conservation Director it would take a little bit of time, as the property lines are not actually on the ground yet, and I don't want to start planning this thing and have someone come up later and say, "Nice course, but you put holes 5-7 and 12 in New Hampshire, moron!"

-steve

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:55 am

That's great to hear, if it's conservation land, then the Administrator, will have a huge role to play...

ask the Con. Admin. if there is any extra monies in the 40 8(c) acct.

This account is one which all commissions should have... it is a fund that is set up for acquisition and maintenance of conservation lands. Some towns have more than others depending on the funds availiable.. I know here in mashpee where I am administrator/agent.. we have a good amount of money... due to cranberries.. which is a good thing and bad thing at the same time, but thats a different matter..

anyways, good luck, and if the commission has any in depth questions, or needs filings... hit me up.. free of charge..

I usually can get somewhere upwards of 60-70$/hr private consulting.. for what its worth :wink:

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:35 pm

it seems we have hit our first snag:

"Hi Steve,

I just heard back form the Department of Conservation and Recreation. They said if the nets were going to be permanent then they would consider this active recreation and not permit it on the Barr Property. "

anyone have any ideas? what's the standard for deciding whether it's active or passive recreation?
-steve

Steve Solbo · Post by **Steve Solbo** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:38 pm

What is the purpose of the nets?

discglfr05 · Post by **discglfr05** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:39 pm

just curious, what are the nets for? blocking out a hazardous retrieval area?..I can understand the concom's concern if thats what the purpose is...wildlife concerns, potential hazard

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:01 pm

i believe by "nets" they mean "baskets;" that is, the things we put our discs in.

-steve

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