battle of the big beads

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:11 pm

to all those of us who use big beaded putters: which do you think the best out there?

i began with magnets, worked my way over to kc aviars and now am onto wizards. now that winter is coming to an end i have realized that my wizards are taking a beating. looking at the profile, one side dips down. i just love the wizard chalkiness, but my 11x kc aviar is bulletproof. i debating on switching back.

maybe i'm putting to much thought into this...all big beaded putters are pretty much the same right (maybe except for the magnet).

Matt Aubin · Post by **Matt Aubin** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:24 pm

i don't think the magnet has a bead?

the wiz's beat in quick but stay in the sweet spot for a long time. I'm one of those guys who thinks it really doesn't matter inside 30 feet or so what you throw, but beyond that is where the differences and preference come in.

I've been throwing the same wizards for about a year... but I'm thinking about adding a little less stable putter for long shots. but to answer the question, i always have 2 putters at least, one I can smack a tree with and not care, and the ol' faithful (both identical putters, same wear stage).

Chris Bolton · Post by **Chris Bolton** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:03 pm

from what i have read and someone correct me if i am wrong

Innova's KC, JK, and Aviar Driver are all the same Big Bead Aviar Mold...

so basically they are the same disc in different plastic....

i have a JK for main putting, one of the new runs (w/ flight ratings) that is for off the tee, and a Star Aviar Driver for jump putting

i tried KC and didn;t really like the firmness of it for putting but works great off the tee...i just like the softness of the JK over the KC

the JK's seems to have more glide, well at least the new runs do

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:23 pm

what's got more glide the wiz, challenger or aviar?

i always felt the wizard just floated forever after throwing the kc

Eric Kevorkian · Post by **Eric Kevorkian** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:27 pm

I switched FROM a KC Pro Aviar TO a SS Wizard about 8 months ago. People say they are the same bead...I don't think they are quite the same though. I found the aviar to be more overstable and more firm than the wizard...both reasons why I made the switch. LOVE the chalkiness of the wizards! (Just picked up 3 new ones :lol:

) Ultimately, I think the wizards "stick" a little easier on those putts that hit the outer edges of the chains.

I also noticed that I have much more difficulty "throwing" a wizard vs an aviar. If they were the same bead then there should be no difference when throwing it (approach/drive) however I cannot throw a wizard nearly as far as I can throw an aviar.

No right or wrong with this one...all personal preference!

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:40 pm

is the medium wizards as tough as the kc avairs? i know i asked you aubin, but anybody else feel and compare the two.

Eric Kevorkian · Post by **Eric Kevorkian** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:00 pm

By "medium" do you mean supersoft/SS?

If that's what you mean, I'd say the KC pro aviars are tougher than the SS Wizards.

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:35 pm

i think wizards come in four different kinds of firmness; medium, soft, super-soft, and stupid super-soft. I've fondled them all but the mediums. my sss wiz is kinda stiff and feels like a jk in the hand.

Matt Aubin · Post by **Matt Aubin** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:50 pm

it varies quite a bit from run to run, but most medium wiz's are STIFF as hell.. almost like the KC's. the KC's feel like they would be more durable though.

Jeff Wiechowski · Post by **Jeff Wiechowski** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:20 pm

Started out with Aviars, spent a year with an Omega SS then came back to Aviars.......... two years ago I saw an SSS Wizard and been with her ever since. :wink:

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:31 pm

anybody think the hotwater/phone book trick will work on a deformed sss wiz? worked on my favorite dx roc today.

Chris Bolton · Post by **Chris Bolton** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:19 am

i think i really have to go with aubin in that inside of 30 i don;t think the putter really matters....it is all what feels good in your hands

i notice that me and tcow....we switch putters every couple months but always come back to the same one.....i have gone from aviars to magics to aviars to jk to aviars to jk to vp to aviars now back to jk

i don;t know why

i guess it is a mental thing

driving with BB discs i personally like

i have heard that the wizard is a little deeper than a jk.....but once again it all comes down to what you think feels better

Mark Valis · Post by **Mark Valis** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:11 pm

mzoro wrote:anybody think the hotwater/phone book trick will work on a deformed sss wiz? worked on my favorite dx roc today.

I believe that would fall under the category of "altering" a disc :shock:

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:19 pm

11%er wrote:
mzoro wrote:anybody think the hotwater/phone book trick will work on a deformed sss wiz? worked on my favorite dx roc today.

I believe that would fall under the category of "altering" a disc

not that i would ever use that said disc in a tournament ever again :lol:

Shawn Mullen · Post by **Shawn Mullen** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:31 pm

11%er wrote:
mzoro wrote:anybody think the hotwater/phone book trick will work on a deformed sss wiz? worked on my favorite dx roc today.

I believe that would fall under the category of "altering" a disc

That's also how you can turn a regular DX roc into a sweet "ching" roc. DGR has the details.

IMO the challenger is the superior beaded putter to all of the others mentioned. Just the right glide...or lack thereof, minimal low speed fade. Get them in pro d plastic and you can have one flippy, one seasoned and one new, cover all your putter shots with one mold. My other choice would be the wizard.....and only if you can find a dinner plate hard M one.

Chris Bunce · Post by **Chris Bunce** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:46 pm

Don't overlook the new Focus, essentially Discraft's Wizard. It's been flying great for me lately, and the Pro-D plastic is so nice (firm/chalky) that I might shelve the Wizards for the first time in two years.

Mike Zorovich · Post by **Mike Zorovich** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:57 pm

i definitely want to try the challenger and focus this summer. how is the focus for approach shots? rumor i heard says its a brick to be used within the circle. that true?

Abel Rodrigues · Post by **Abel Rodrigues** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:47 pm

challenger= perfect putter/midrange

Aaron Ala · Post by **Aaron Ala** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:15 pm

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10842

Shawn Mullen · Post by **Shawn Mullen** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:24 pm

Yeah you might like some vibram action. The ridge is the best one to date IMO.

Chris Bunce · Post by **Chris Bunce** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:47 pm

I've only been using the Focus for approaches. Goes where I want it to every time: long straight with a small fade at medium power, holds an anny line at full power with a slight fade at the end, just enough to keep it from hitting an edge and rolling off.

Of course, this also perfectly describes the Wizard. Because they're the same disc. I'm just liking the Pro-D blend, feels great in hand.

Dennis Parslow · Post by **Dennis Parslow** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:46 am

Kovo wrote:I switched FROM a KC Pro Aviar TO a SS Wizard about 8 months ago. People say they are the same bead...I don't think they are quite the same though. I found the aviar to be more overstable and more firm than the wizard...both reasons why I made the switch. LOVE the chalkiness of the wizards! (Just picked up 3 new ones ) Ultimately, I think the wizards "stick" a little easier on those putts that hit the outer edges of the chains.

I also noticed that I have much more difficulty "throwing" a wizard vs an aviar. If they were the same bead then there should be no difference when throwing it (approach/drive) however I cannot throw a wizard nearly as far as I can throw an aviar.

No right or wrong with this one...all personal preference!

I agree with Eric's assessment. I love the chalkiness of the Wizards. I don't get the Vibram claim that they are grippy because for me I have some 12 X KC's that are grippier before they changed the mold to say "www.innovadiscs.com" on the back, and the Wizards are MUCH grippier. Maybe there are some special ones that Aaron of Jerel have, but the ones I bought are not grippy.

I prefer the KC Aviar because it does seem a little more overstable than the Wiz and they take a beating much better than the SS. It's not the same mold as the Wizard. The Wizard is more rounded, while the Aviar has a slight bevel from the flat top the the rounded edge. It just feels a little better to me so I putt ,approach, and drive with them.

If I had to putt with a Wizard I think I would be fine though.

Craig Cutler · Post by **Craig Cutler** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:18 pm

After visiting the Innova warehouse I realized that there are many different plastic types and feels for the KC Aviar. It's tough to blindly order them from a vendor because you never know what you will get.

I have some 12Xers that are shiny grippy bendable plastic, others are hard almost chaulky like the old 10 and 11Xers. Lined up in a box there are about 5 shades of white and they are all 12 xers. For me, the bendy rubbery ones go right into the practice basket, the hard chaulky ones go in the bag. feel is everything.

Karl Molitoris · Post by **Karl Molitoris** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:00 pm

Craig,

From what you're saying - and I'm not saying making "consistent discs" (even intra-batch) is easy - but maybe there is "need" for manufacturers to add other parameters to discs...at least maybe their premium ones.

Presently we have:
Make (always the same for any 1 manufacturer)
Model (they place a name on it but that's about it)
Mold (from what you're saying, even this can vary)
Run (we all know THIS can vary)
Color (less important, but in some cases, CAN have an effect)
Weight (yup, certainly can vary)

Maybe we need to add:
Shore (a hardness measurement)
Flexibility (torsion of some sort)
"Tackiness" (something that measures the "feel" aspect you mentioned)
Others ??

Karl