"Top Kill"

[Eric Kevorkian]

Is anyone else watching cnn's live feed of this?

I hate saying it, but i'm not very optimistic it's going to work...

the whole situation makes me want to

[Sjur Soleng]

Best thing ever to come out of this (comedy wise) is the fake BP twitter account...Last update was..."you know, I think this spill is working out...dressing in black sure does make the gulf look thinner.."

[Mike Murphy]

Best thing ever to come out of this (comedy wise) is the fake BP twitter account...Last update was..."you know, I think this spill is working out...dressing in black sure does make the gulf look thinner.."

[Matt Stroika]

Did you hear about the new car that gets 30 mpg running on water?

Only problem is that you need to get that water from the gulf coast.

Seriously though, this could be the largest man made disaster we have ever seen. The impact on the environment will last for generations.

[Mike Murphy]

Did you hear about the new car that gets 30 mpg running on water?

Only problem is that you need to get that water from the gulf coast.

Seriously though, this could be the largest man made disaster we have ever seen. The impact on the environment will last for generations.

I wonder if this is a worse of a disaster than say Chernobyl.

[Dave McHale]

no, but they did say today that it's worse than valdez

[Karl Molitoris]

Of course it depends on how you define "worse", but I'd say potentially yes!

Sure, not as many people will have died because of the BP debaucle (opposed to a nuke melt-down) but environmentally the areas affected by each are not even close (Chernobyl being a lot smaller) and radiation is either there (and affected what it affected) or not - while exactly what / how / how much all this oil affects (by moving, critters taking it "with them" as they're trying to escape, etc.) may never be fully known.

Karl

[Ryan Brunelle]

Just saw this thread...my line of work is directly related to this. Every ship/company working in US waters must have a Qualified Individual (a company/person who resides in the US and will represent them in the event of an oil spill) and a Spill Management Team (a company/person who will manage the spill on their behalf). I work for one of only 4-5 leading companies that do QI/SMT work. Thankfully, BP is not our client (they are with our major competitor), so we are not down there...yet. The spill management aspect of this whole debacle hasnt even begun to gear up, so I'm sure we will have a few guys down there soon enough. Has anyone seen what started washing up today in alabama...nasty tarballs....Its going to get really really worse before it gets better. Top kill was a bust and operation cut and cap is a longshot at best. Really the only chance is the relief wells that may be ready in august. This has well surpassed valdez (estimates at 20-40 million gallons already, whereas valdez was only 11 million). Sickening...

[Dave McHale]

ryan, from someone "in the know" do you really think cut-n-cap is going to fare ANY better than top hat? seems overall like the same concept (aka: why try something that already failed) but maybe the news' description of the next endeavor was lacking, leading to my confusion

[Ryan Brunelle]

No, I highly doubt it will work, BUT, I am not an engineer....Nor do I really think that drilling the relief wells will work either. I read somewhere that its like trying to hit something the size of a dinner plate a mile away. Not the best odds. And if they miss, which they probably will for the first many tries, they have to back it up, replug what they just drilled and start again. Eventually (hopefully) I assume the well will simply loose pressure and collapse on its own. The whole situation is pretty amazing though...once you get past the fact (and anger) that there was no "back-up" plan to this you realize that they are learning new aspects of science as they go. Its pretty crazy. I mean, BP is bringing in everyone. They just dont know what to do. Did you hear they brought in James Cameron who is considered one of the leading experts in underwater robotics...All the brilliant scientists in the world cannot figure this out. And whats even funnier is all the people protesting BP. How many of those people are driving hummers?? So you want the oil, but you dont want to deal with the ramifications of drilling for the oil. Welcome to the downside folks. And then these same people are crying over how much power the Saudis have....Crazy world we live in...

[Andrew McManus]

What about hay in regards to the mammoth clean up operation....I think these common farmers are onto something here:

http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil/

and there's certainly no shortage of hay

[Eric Kevorkian]

I passed a BP gas station the other day. It was packed...with a line of people waiting to get gas. I slowed down, stuck my head out the window and had a few choice words for those pumping/waiting...

[Eric Kevorkian]

What about hay in regards to the mammoth clean up operation....I think these common farmers are onto something here:

http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil/

and there's certainly no shortage of hay

[Mike Dussault]

What about hay in regards to the mammoth clean up operation....I think these common farmers are onto something here:

http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil/

and there's certainly no shortage of hay

Dag gummit, he is right. There ain't no pan edges out thar in the middle of the warter. Them guys are wicked smaht!

It might help though.

[Matt DeAngelis]

That was pretty amazing right there. It's the same idea as using human hair to clean it up, but it is easier and more plentiful than hair. Seems like a pretty simple solution for the cleanup, but the issue still needs to be addressed at the source.

[Karl Molitoris]

Just a question out of the blue...

What the @#$%&* are you going to do with 817 bazillion tons of wet, oily hay?

Read: The cost of harvesting the hay, tranportation of it to the gulf, "laying it out", gathering it in (when it now weights a stupid amount of weight), and then transporting it somewhere to do something with it (god knows what) is NOT an easy [and maybe not even a viable] solution. And that only the oil we can see! There will be ridiculous amounts that we may never see (sub-surface) that won't just go away because we want it to. We will be "dealing with this" literally until we die. Pitiful.

This isn't a case of sprinkling Quik-Dri on your garage floor....

Karl

[Mike Dussault]

This isn't a case of sprinkling Quik-Dri on your garage floor....



Karl, You've got it! Quick dry ought to do the trick!

[Karl Molitoris]

OK, keep that concept under your hat until I buy a LOT of stock in the company that makes that stuff !

[Ryan Brunelle]

OK, keep that concept under your hat until I buy a LOT of stock in the company that makes that stuff !

Probably a good time to buy BP stock before Shell scoops 'em up...may want to wait a bit until the stock really hits rock bottom.

[Andrew McManus]

Just a question out of the blue...

What the @#$%&* are you going to do with 817 bazillion tons of wet, oily hay?

Read: The cost of harvesting the hay, tranportation of it to the gulf, "laying it out", gathering it in (when it now weights a stupid amount of weight), and then transporting it somewhere to do something with it (god knows what) is NOT an easy [and maybe not even a viable] solution. And that only the oil we can see! There will be ridiculous amounts that we may never see (sub-surface) that won't just go away because we want it to. We will be "dealing with this" literally until we die. Pitiful.

This isn't a case of sprinkling Quik-Dri on your garage floor....

Karl

Take it easy Karl...obviously, its not the only solution and I never said it would clean up everything, but clearly, it works in some capacity and no one should shut the door on any ideas at this point.
Ever heard of bio-fuel?...a possible use for the oil soaked hay

Also, the hay could be used as a buffer to coastal areas (strategically placed, and not just mindlessly scattered ok?), wetlands, etc Perhaps booms can be modified with hay. Looking at it as an all or nothing approach is pretty short sighted. I think it could be a very useful TOOL in stemming the spread..it doesn't haveto be thought of as a universal cure-all approach and hence summarily shot down because of logistical issues on a grand scale.
I say start using it NOW in critical habitat areas and see how it works...what do they have to lose at this point?

[Karl Molitoris]

I'm 'taking it easy" A. (I'm just not cheap) .

Not lambasting YOU, just the fact that we have to do ANYTHING (to try to rectify such a deplorable situation). I've been in the Quality field for the better part of 2 decades and it just really irks me (as I'm sure you couldn't tell ) as to all the cases I'VE seen - let alone all the others I know HAVE happened but didn't - where people's greed make corners to be cut...and then, eventually, the proverbial crap hits the fan. And we - the common-folk - are left holding the short end of the stick (while the fat cats get away with murder (sometimes literally - at least in the case of fishes, etc.)).

Yup, it IS a part of the solution (maybe) but the logistical cost of all that I mentioned above is WAY too great...and see next sentence why this won't work.

And to answer your question "what do they have to lose?" - my answer is "money"...the one thing BP (et al) will try as hard as they can NOT to lose - ethics and ecology be damned!

You may (or may not) know that a very common practice (for companies dealing with a very large "issue") is to stall, stall, and stall some more. What this does is buy time; time in which either 1) the public, congress, other gvt agencies, eventually get tired of fighting and the severity of the penalties wane or, 2) another "issue" comes up - which steals the limelight away (wheeew!!) from the first co. and "everyone forgets just how big it was" - because the problem du jour is now THE problem. This will be the case this time too!

There are times when the punishment should fit the crime (like MOST cases). And there are a few cases where the punishment should be greater than the crime (to 'deter' others and teach a lesson).
Ya think big corporations have learned any lessons here?

Karl

[Andrew McManus]

Never thought u were lambasting me Karl, just a little too quick to dismiss the idea..on any level. To be honest, I don't see this as a cost prohibitive nor unreasonable approach at all when you do a little comparing and contrasting with current methods being employed. I think it should be tested immediately in sample areas and specifically put in place to protect coastal marsh/wetlands... Consolidating the oil is key, especially with hurricane season started already.

I was watching the news the other night and they were showing BP hired workers (former fishermen) wiping oil off the blades of marsh grass with towels ...seriously, is that the best management practice in place right now? After shutting down and/or diverting the gusher, consolidation and containment are the next priorities.

I am well aware of corporate tactics and delay strategies when it comes to liability...hopefully BP will be charged with strict liability in this case, but realistically, they'll probably snake their way through relatively unscathed...indeed it is tragic on a grand scale.

[Karl Molitoris]

A.,

I'm sure you realize the "news" is what THEY (whomever they is...and it isn't you or I) want to show us - nothing more. So, for whatever reason, they chose to show people cleaning blades of reeds. If you think this is the only cleaning method being used... . I don't think you're that naive!

You can think this method is not unreasonable (monetarily) but I'm guessing I have a lot more experience in "logistics" (of running a company) and thus do know the costs - in today's dollars - of such an operation. And while it sounds great and people may inact a little of such, it would not be practical!

BP, et al will "put on an act" (of 'doing everything we possibly can to clean up this') but, in the end, their efforts will be of very little significance....

Karl

[Andrew McManus]

No, definitely not the only method used...but just the fact that it was being employed at all (on any scale) was disappointing to see. Regardless of media bias, it was shown to be happening and that's enough for me to form my own opinion. I don't doubt your credentials Karl, but honestly, without the benefit of a complete cost/benefit analysis, I don't think either one of us are completely qualified to assess costs in this situation, although I'm sure you're miles ahead of me in terms of experience.

I do work in the environmental field dealing mostly with compliance permitting and monitoring....something that in this particular case seems to have been extremely lacking when the permits were first issued...just sickening really. I'm currently dealing with an on-going EPA superfund clean up operation regarding contaminant plumes affecting groundwater quality and believe me, I know how large, powerful entities can circumvent and BS their way out of anything.

On a smaller scale, I think this approach should be used and it would not be cost prohibitive, it would however, be effective. What's the cost of the oil clean up once it inundates coastal marshes and wetlands?...talk about a logistical nightmare

[Karl Molitoris]

Not saying that EVERYTHING shouldn't be considered (and maybe even implemented on a small / localized / applicable scale) even though everyone can't focus on the same thing at the same time [...which yields the 'too many cooks in the kitchen' enigma...], but what really got me going was all this talk about "cleaning up" when the source wasn't addressed ASAP. It's like bailing out a boat with a bunch of dixie cups when the boat's bottom still has a 1 foot diameter hole in it!

I do work in the environmental field dealing mostly with compliance permitting and monitoring....something that in this particular case seems to have been extremely lacking when the permits were first issued...just sickening really.

First part = cool! Second part = really...total bummer.

My guess is that the 'total clean up' will never happen - as one person's 'total' will be defined differently from yours or mine. And the poor critters (and people living near by) will suffer for generations to come.

Karl

[Eric Kevorkian]

What's the cost of the oil clean up once it inundates coastal marshes and wetlands?...talk about a logistical nightmare

It's happening now...LA, and AL are covered.

Tar balls on Pensacola beach in FLA today...

[Andrew McManus]

What's the cost of the oil clean up once it inundates coastal marshes and wetlands?...talk about a logistical nightmare

It's happening now...LA, and AL are covered.

Tar balls on Pensacola beach in FLA today...

I know, too bad they didn't take more action in preventative measures earlier on. The whole attitude and approach to this major disaster is very disappointing.

[Steve Solbo]

Nope. They were in compliance with the permits and the project was fine and dandy until a plain old dumb "accident" happened. What is LACKING here is ENFORCEMENT.

This isn't the only well in the gulf, there are approx. 3858 oil rigs there. So, 1 went bad, REAL bad, that's .0002%, not a bad percentage, there have been 15 spills of this magnitude world wide, this is the 2nd in the US, first in the Gulf. Yes, it's tragic, but the regulators aren't the problem, the enforcement is the issue.

Again, this is a terrible situation, however the issue is now with the man everyone elected. BP CEOs should and will be investigated criminally for this, and we'll learn from this situation.

[Eric Kevorkian]

Good points, Solbo.

Only thing is, .002% in that business IS a bad percentage...

[Ken Hannan]

1/3858 is actually .026%, even worse...

Lack of regulations, safety regulations, contributed to this spill big time. BP would have been mandated to have a shutoff mechanism if this platform was in the North Sea, but not in the gulf thanks to Cheney and big oil.

They should rename it the Gulf of Cheney, whose company Haliburton was involved in the bad cement job.