Divisional crossover players

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Bill Dunne
18th in Am1, qualified and on the initial invite list.
9th in Pro Masters, 2nd on the waitlist.
** Resolved. Bill is not coming to Finals

Greg Wintrob
7th in MPO
2nd in MPM
BOTH within invite lists
**Resolved. Greg is playing MPO per NEFA charter.

Daniel Marcus
18th in MPO
1st in MPM
BOTH within invite lists
**Resolved. Daniel is playing MPO per NEFA charter.

Rick Williams
2nd in MPG
2nd in MM1
BOTH within invite lists
**Resolved. Rick is playing MPG per NEFA charter.

Dave Richardson
1st in AM2
27th in AM1, 7th on the waitlist
**Resolved. Dave will play AM1 if 8 players drop from the AM1 invite list per NEFA charter.

Heather Eng
1st in FW1
5th in FPO, 1st on waitlist
**Resolved. Heather will play FPO if one player drops from the FPO invite list per NEFA charter.

Points Series Charter

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Don't worry about me... I'm not going to finals this year. And if you don't like that... you can ban me too!

(This message was brought to you by: My Freedom of Speech.)

I'm Bill Dunne and I approved of this message!

One down.........

[Rick Williams]

I will be playing in Pro Grandmasters in the finals, as specified in the 2010 Points Charter.

Rick

[Titan Bariloni]

yes..the highest qualified division they must play in...not sure if age protected allows them to play pro masters over open..?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

...not sure if age protected allows them to play pro masters over open..?

Not sure either. Maybe we ask Greg and Daniel what their plans are?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Also contact Dave Richardson....... just to inform him that he's playing AM2 unless seven AM1's drop out.

[Titan Bariloni]

I will

[Daniel Marcus]

I should think it would be assumed that I'd be playing Masters...

"Players are required to play in the highest division for which they qualify to attend the finals."

Does this really refer to Pro Divisions? I would think that this was intended for the skill based crossovers like AM2 vs. AM1, AM1 vs. Open, or as in Mr Dunne's case, AMI vs. Pro Master.

I have not decided which I want to play at this point, but I think we should have the choice. Was this intended as an incentive for me to not play open during the season?

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Bad assumption on our part, Daniel........... my personal opinion is that players should be able to move in/out of age-protected division if their skill allows them to be competitive in a particular division.


Looking For Greg to chime in with his intentions too.

[Bill Dunne]

I should think it would be assumed that I'd be playing Masters...

"Players are required to play in the highest division for which they qualify to attend the finals."

Does this really refer to Pro Divisions? I would think that this was intended for the skill based crossovers like AM2 vs. AM1, AM1 vs. Open, or as in Mr Dunne's case, AMI vs. Pro Master.

I have not decided which I want to play at this point, but I think we should have the choice. Was this intended as an incentive for me to not play open during the season?

There was talk about this all season and several people made sure they didn't play too many tourneys in a higher division for this very reason.

I knew I wasn't going to finals, so I decided to play this past weekend in Pro Masters. If I were going to finals, I would have made sure I didn't get that 5th round in that higher division.

[John Hart]

I would agree with Daniel. I do not think this should apply to age protected divisions. Pro vs. Pro Masters, or Adv. Masters vs AM1.

We have so many divisions, sometimes players end up at an event where they are in a division solo, and then decide to play a higher or equally high but different age restricted division to compete against other people. At Rindge Rick Williams was a lone PGM, so he played Pro Masters with 17 others. He shouldn't be penalized for that if he ended up qualifying for both divisions. But he should play PGM over Adv Masters as he is doing.

Just my opinion.

[Sandy Redd]

Bad assumption on our part, Daniel........... my personal opinion is that players should be able to move in/out of age-protected division if their skill allows them to be competitive in a particular division.


Looking For Greg to chime in with his intentions too.

is down at the USDGC he probably will play masters if i had to guess, but let him answer

[Jeff Wiechowski]

The only thing we ask is that Daniel and Greg need to come to a decision soon. They are holding a spot in two divisions with people on waitlists that would really like to play.

David Boliver & Doug DeSalvo............ you have been moved back to the Pro Masters waitlist until this is resolved. Sorry.

[Paul Sullivan]

My .02

Doesn't the NEFA Points Series Charter currently state that " you must play in the highest division in which you qualify for" ????

This is where alot of hot NEFA issues quickly run amuck......

If you don't like the rules/charter then make the changes, vote on them, put them into place and then the next year the changes come into effect. We have a tendency to make changes to things during the season and then of course this brings about confusion/animosity.

Am I that far off here?

[Sean Curcio]

I'm just curious, What would be considered the "higher" division - MPO or MPM or MPG?

[Rob Tatro]

My .02

Doesn't the NEFA Points Series Charter currently state that " you must play in the highest division in which you qualify for" ????

This is where alot of hot NEFA issues quickly run amuck......

If you don't like the rules/charter then make the changes, vote on them, put them into place and then the next year the changes come into effect. We have a tendency to make changes to things during the season and then of course this brings about confusion/animosity.

Am I that far off here?

I don't think you're far off Paul but players need to realize that some parts of the charter are poorly written and are in need of some extra help to help seal up some of the cracks so to say. The charter itself is a work in progress which is why we took steps at our last NEFA board meeting to allow our leadership to make mid-stream changes if something is found that is broken rather than have to wait until the end of the season.

Trust that we will be working hard to fix these problems when they arise ... it may not happen tomorrow or next week, but it will happen I can assure you of that (I hope ).

I would like to hear Greg's point of view on this and am becoming convinced that Daniel and John are correct in thinking that age protected divisions should not apply when talking about PGM vs. PM vs. PO.

I'd like to continue to listen to arguments for or against so that we can make these necessary adjustments.

[Gary Cyr]

.

[Troy Dietrich]

I'm just curious, What would be considered the "higher" division - MPO or MPM or MPG?

Since this seems to be a gray area, it looks like Jeff is letting the players decide which division they want to play in. Which I'd agree with since it's no spelled out in the charter. Although clearly from a competetive standpoint I'd think the order would have to be MPG -> MPM -> MPO.

I fail to see the difference between an MPM player stepping up to MPO vs an AM2 stepping up to AM1. In both cases they're stepping up to a tougher more competitive division. Plus, for the purposes of finals this takes the decision out the players hands, so we're not twiddling our thumbs waiting for people to make up their minds.

Something to think about for next year.

[Gary Cyr]

.

[Titan Bariloni]

n the end NEFA will end up allowing you to compete in the Masters divison because there is nobody wants to stand tall against this muddying of the waters.

over my cold dead body will they play in masters...sorry GUYS but not happening..!

[Titan Bariloni]

n the end NEFA will end up allowing you to compete in the Masters divison because there is nobody wants to stand tall against this muddying of the waters.

over my cold dead body will they play in masters...sorry GUYS but not happening..!

Its very strange I found yet another frigging loop hole in this crap Charter that will so be changed after the Finals so next year we can move forward...!

It says you must compete in highest division qualified for or is it invited...that also needs to be worded to Both if the situation occurs

Ok back to my point....The NEFA Charter does NOT define the Order of highest to lowest..! so how can anyone ever say what division is higher..its open for discussion in any division without it being define...although we all know what the ORDER is...starting at TOP with Open..age restrictions don't apply to Finals...

side note why would want to compete against 4 people..? that you know you could beat...?(no offense to rest of division)

I will speak for Greg...he was involved closely with INVITE list and to my understanding is aware Open is above Masters.....

Finally I 100% agree with Gary and glad to know the background on the Charter Rule and why it was put in to place....

Discussion over...!

[Jeff Wiechowski]

Since this seems to be a gray area, it looks like Jeff is letting the players decide which division they want to play in. Which I'd agree with since it's no spelled out in the charter.

I agree with everything EXCEPT "Jeff letting them players decide"........... I cannot make this decision, I'm just an assistant trying to keep this whole invite thing organized.

Gary Cyr just posted that he made this rule last year to solve this specific problem. Seems pretty clear-cut that whoever is in charge of enforcing said rule should do so and move forward from there.

[Titan Bariloni]

The rule has BEEN enforced...JW, the Chair is calling the shots on THIS

[Daniel Marcus]

But it should be quite obvious to players what was meant by that rule. And it's only when a player can find benefit for themselves that they try and cloud the rule. When is someone in this organization going to take a stand against these people that muddy the waters when it will benefit them?!

Gary, the only reason this wasn't quite obvious to me is the simple fact that I never read the charter (and it's new this year); I'll abide by whatever rules are set forth. That said, I was surprised by this, and as a result I figured I would ask those in the know for clarification. Simple as that.

From what you wrote I get the sense that you read too much into my question and statement of opinion, and immediately took your interpretation as my motivation for asking this question. I know I've earned such consideration, but I'll keep trying to move past it, one day at a time...

Also, please note where I qualified and where I played last year in the finals...

[Titan Bariloni]

If people would like to discuss the why/whats fine..but the discussion on where the said 2 will play is determined...BOTTOM LINE..

NEFA is not the PDGA....

[Daniel Marcus]

Oh, and I'm in...

[DOUG D]

First off why has the pro masters division shrunk from 4 to 3? It says in the invites that there will be 4 pro masters now you say Boliver and I are both on the wait list? Daniel...we palyed alot together over the last 2 years and I love playing with you but we always talked about the possibility of you and Greg both earning enough points to qualify for open and that you would have to step up at the finals. This thread should be no surprise, Greg is down here in Charlotte right now and he says he is playing open. lets resolve this quick.Maybe I was a little quick in assuming I was in.Already bought plane ticket, rent car and hotel reservations.

[Titan Bariloni]

Daniel you will walk up to SugarBush and CRUSH whatever field you play IN anyways...Good luck at Finals..! Mr ACE

You want that bigger money in Open anyways.....

on a side note Juano had a great year...! good job in the open division for as few Events as he played....I am impressed..!

[Titan Bariloni]

Doug list has been reinstated to original form...Good Luck..!

[Jeff Wiechowski]

First off why has the pro masters division shrunk from 4 to 3? It says in the invites that there will be 4 pro masters now you say Boliver and I are both on the wait list? ...... lets resolve this quick.Maybe I was a little quick in assuming I was in.Already bought plane ticket, rent car and hotel reservations.

Sorry Doug, Typo on my part........... you're in and Jiardini is your target.