Ratings and division restrictions

[Brad Dahle]

I am playing in the GHDGO tomorrow in advanced masters. I see that someone got off the wait list and into the tourney and same division. This person has a 976 rating. Is this allowed?

[Matt Aubin]

The only 'caps' in PDGA play are 935 for AM2, 900 for rec, and 850 for novice. There are also caps for some women's AM divisions but I don't remember the cutoff.

The player you are talking about is a good guy, he just happened to keep it dead straight on the fairway at Panthorn for 2 rounds (the only 2 rounds that currently count towards his rating)... That equals a pair of well-rated rounds. (a -3 55 is 1000 rated.) Playing the length and open fields of Wick is completely different so don't sweat it... no pun intended.

[Josh Connell]

I am playing in the GHDGO tomorrow in advanced masters. I see that someone got off the wait list and into the tourney and same division. This person has a 976 rating. Is this allowed?

Of course it is. There's no cap on Advanced Masters (or any "Advanced" division) so long as the player is still an amateur. And as far as I can tell, this player is still an amateur (no signs of taking cash in Pro or even playing a Pro division in his PDGA history).

[Brad Dahle]

Matt - thanks for the info.

[Danny White]

Looking thru the discussions and came across this...

I am the player with the 976 Rating. I saw the rating disparity even before I was added to the event. I had already conversed with Joe Proud and made my intentions known to move up to pro either in Masters or Grand Masters division and he said just do it at the registration table the morning of the event. I ended up taking 1st in ProGM and that became my first CASH for a PDGA event.
Sorry if I cause some concern. It all worked out in the END.

Had a great time playing and Wickham is really nice course. Props to Team Wick!

[Matt Stroika]

Danny White the anti-sandbagger.

Congrats on your first cash as a pro. You are a very solid player. (We played dubs at Pye a few weeks back)

[Jeff Prendergast]

I met Danny White at Pyramids (right after he had finished playing the 2 disc tourney at Devens) and he did not come across as a guy who would do anything surreptitiously. Very nice guy to throw a round with and a heckuva player as well.

I'm shocked that he's a GM. The week before I met him, he said he had won AM1 at a tourney I can't recall. When's the last time that happened? (a GM winning in Pro or AM)

[Chuck Kennedy]

Ask David Greenwell or Dr. Rick Voakes (Sr GM)

[Karl Molitoris]

When's the last time that happened? (a GM winning in Pro or AM)

It's been done a few times....

Karl

[Titan Bariloni]

I am playing in the GHDGO tomorrow in advanced masters. I see that someone got off the wait list and into the tourney and same division. This person has a 976 rating. Is this allowed?

Of course it is. There's no cap on Advanced Masters (or any "Advanced" division) so long as the player is still an amateur. And as far as I can tell, this player is still an amateur (no signs of taking cash in Pro or even playing a Pro division in his PDGA history).

its gonna be hard to ever put a rating cap on any Adv AM..they could be protecting there AM status for whateva reason...

Just think it semi undermines competitive golf..IMO I feel AM worlds should have a rating cap

[Karl Molitoris]

For some reason disc golf has come up with a "stratified" Am hierarchy of divisions but not one in the Pros.

Am divisions are (if there would be enough players to populate each)...

Advanced ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Intermediate ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Novice ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Recreational ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)

That's 20 divisions!

...yet Pros only have their analogous "Advanced" divisions of each (That Pro2 thing didn't last too long...).

That's only 5 to "cover" the same breadth.

Why?
Answer: Because it is assumed that once you hit a certain 'level of play' you will want to always play for money...and thus become a "Pro".
Bad assumption.

Karl

[Josh Connell]

For some reason disc golf has come up with a "stratified" Am hierarchy of divisions but not one in the Pros.

Am divisions are (if there would be enough players to populate each)...

Advanced ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Intermediate ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Novice ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)
Recreational ("regular", master, GMs, SGMs, Ls)

That's 20 divisions!

...yet Pros only have their analogous "Advanced" divisions of each (That Pro2 thing didn't last too long...).

That's only 5 to "cover" the same breadth.

Why?
Answer: Because it is assumed that once you hit a certain 'level of play' you will want to always play for money...and thus become a "Pro".
Bad assumption.

Karl

Karl, there are no Masters, GM, SGM, etc below Advanced. So the "20 divisions" you cite really are just eight (MA1, MA2, MA3, MA4, MM1, MG1, MS1, ML1). Aside from Pro vs Am, the age protected divisions are not stratified at all. The idea being that either you play where your skill/rating puts you, or you play where your age puts you.

[Karl Molitoris]

I seemed to recall that when I first started playing tournaments, a few of them DID have these divisions...if there were enough players to support it. Like both an Advanced Masters AND an Intermediate Masters division in the same tournament.

That this practice may have changed - along with the actual listing of the PDGA divisions (which I can't seem to find) - probably is true [time flies!] but I'm guessing that IFFFFFFFF a TD had enough call for such, i.e. there were 10 40yo AMs all rated about 900 and another pool of about 10 40yo AMs all rated about 800, the TD could petition the PDGA - if these divisions don't exist any more - for a dispensation...and it'd be granted.

Take that to the illogical / not-bloddy-likely extreme (of my first post) and you get the MANY splintered AM divisons - by both age AND ability. Yet Pros are only by age.
I'm talking theoretical; you're focusing in on practical.
But even in your listings there are more AM divisions than Pros. My point is that IFFFFFF we HAVE to have the biggest "split out" (after women vs. men) via AM vs. Pro (which I don't believe we DO have to...it's just engrained as such so hard to change), why not make them equitable?

Karl

[Chuck Kennedy]

It's already been done Karl. Pros below 970 can play in their ratings appropriate Am division - Advanced, Intermediate, Rec and Novice. So Pros and Ams below 970 have equivalent options based on skill/rating.

There was some pressure applied by some Intermediate level Masters or GMs in Florida several years back to have an official Intermediate Masters (or GM) division. That was rejected by the PDGA Compeition Committee since they can always play in their ratings based am division if they wish.

[Craig Smolin]

Here's an interesting idea that has been "thrown" around before for men's divisions:

A. Professional, gambler, whatever ... play for straight up money ... but have it based on ratings:

1. 975+
2. 925 to 975
3. 875 to 925
4. below 875

B. Amateur, none money, trophy only, whatever, but have it based on ratings: same splits as above.

C. No age restrictions PERIOD! You MUST play where your rating says you must play.

D. Women's divisions are more difficult as there are fewer players, so no proposal for there.

[Abel Rodrigues]

Here's an interesting idea that has been "thrown" around before for men's divisions:

A. Professional, gambler, whatever ... play for straight up money ... but have it based on ratings:

1. 970+
2. 925 to 975
3. 875 to 925
4. below 875

B. Amateur, none money, trophy only, whatever, but have it based on ratings: same splits as above.

C. No age restrictions PERIOD! You MUST play where your rating says you must play.

D. Women's divisions are more difficult as there are fewer players, so no proposal for there.

[Mike Laterreur]

That may be the most well thought out post Smolin has EVER posted.
Not quite sure how it would work out. But definitely worth a consideration...