Changes to relief rule

[Rob Walker]

I'm trying to make sure that I understand the changes to the casual relief rule. While playing West Thompson yesterday, I went in the stream on my drive on hole 6. This is casual water that is just shy of the green. I didn't want to stand in fairly deep water, so I took relief, in line with the basket, behind my lie. To stay dry, I had to go about 12 feet backwards, away from the basket. It seems that with the way the rule stands, I would either have the choice of standing in the water or taking a stroke penalty. My understanding is that in prior years, I got up to 3 meters of casual relief, at my own discretion. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong rule. In a tournament I would be more apt to stand in the drink, whereas in a casual round, I'm less likely to want to get wet.

803.05 Obstacles and Relief

A. Obstacles to a Stance or Throwing Motion: With the exception of casual obstacles to a stance as described in 803.05 B, a player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course. No relief is granted from park equipment (such as signs, trash cans, picnic tables, etc), which is considered part of the course. A player is allowed to request that other people remove themselves and/or their belongings from the player's stance or line of play. A player must choose the stance which results in the least movement of any obstacle. Once a legal stance is taken, the player may not move an obstacle in any way in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

C. Optional Relief: A player may declare that he or she is taking optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie that is no closer to the hole, and on the line of play. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

D. In situations where it is unclear if an object may be moved or other relief obtained, it shall be determined by a majority of the group or an official.

E. A player shall receive one penalty throw, without a warning, for violation of an obstacle or relief rule.

F. A player who purposely damages anything on the course shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an
official. The player may also be disqualified from the tournament, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual.

[Brad Harris]

You can take 5 meters (~15 feet) with no penalty. It's right there in 803.05 B.

the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie

[Josh Connell]

803.05 Obstacles and Relief

A. Obstacles to a Stance or Throwing Motion: With the exception of casual obstacles to a stance as described in 803.05 B, a player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course. No relief is granted from park equipment (such as signs, trash cans, picnic tables, etc), which is considered part of the course. A player is allowed to request that other people remove themselves and/or their belongings from the player's stance or line of play. A player must choose the stance which results in the least movement of any obstacle. Once a legal stance is taken, the player may not move an obstacle in any way in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

C. Optional Relief: A player may declare that he or she is taking optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie that is no closer to the hole, and on the line of play. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

D. In situations where it is unclear if an object may be moved or other relief obtained, it shall be determined by a majority of the group or an official.

E. A player shall receive one penalty throw, without a warning, for violation of an obstacle or relief rule.

F. A player who purposely damages anything on the course shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an
official. The player may also be disqualified from the tournament, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual.

The casual relief rule hasn't changed in all the time I've played the game. It was and still remains that you can take up to five meters of relief, along the line of play, from casual obstacles (such as casual water).

What has changed in the rule Rob quoted is the addition of "optional relief" which is not a change to casual relief, but part of the replacement (along with the Optional Re-throw rule 803.06) for the old unsafe/unplayable lie rule. It does not supersede the casual relief rule. If you can't or wish not to take a stance within 5 meters of your disc per the casual relief rules, THEN you must opt for the optional relief (w/penalty).

[Rob Walker]

Thanks for the quick responses. You confirmed what I thought. I recently played a tournament with a TD in my group and he insisted that the rule had changed. We may have been talking cross purposes. The other good news is that I played the hole correctly yesterday.

[Daniel Marcus]

Josh, don't forget the word "nearest" in that rule. Many folks think they can take any lie within 5 meters and on the line of play, but it's really the first available. This can make a huge difference if you are, say, in the woods or something...

[Tom Whissel]

Hi,

Just for my clarification. If water in question was a stream why is it considered casual as opposed to an actual water hazard? I have not played West Thompson. SO I assume the stream must be declared as casual by course rules???


Thanks,

Tom

[Josh Connell]

Hi,

Just for my clarification. If water in question was a stream why is it considered casual as opposed to an actual water hazard? I have not played West Thompson. SO I assume the stream must be declared as casual by course rules???


Thanks,

Tom

All water is casual by default. It must be designated specifically as out of bounds or not casual to be treated differently. From the rule book definition:

Casual Water: Bodies of water other than those that have been specifically designated by the director prior to the start of the round as out-of-bounds or those that have been specifically designated by the director prior to the start of the round as not being casual water.

[Tom Whissel]

Thanks for the clarification. I was stuck in ball golf world.

[Karl Molitoris]

Daniel brings up - to me - the most "abused" aspect of that rule. It's worth stating again. It's the NEAREST point of relief (up to 5 m). Who determines "nearest"...I'd say consensus of that group (if there's any question).

Karl

[Matt Aubin]

C. Optional Relief: A player may declare that he or she is taking optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie that is no closer to the hole, and on the line of play. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

Does this rule carry the same caveats as the casual relief rule (only up to 5m, closest or nearest point determined by group etc), or, because of the stroke penalty, can you go back as far as you want/need with the stroke penalty (similar to a re tee)?

I'm picturing a lie I had at west thompson, hole 16 left in the thick trees. Impossible to get out cleanly, but I could have went straight back 5 meters, marked, taken the stroke, dumped a hyzer and putted for 4. Instead I tried a dangerous shot and went OB in the water.

[Josh Connell]

C. Optional Relief: A player may declare that he or she is taking optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie that is no closer to the hole, and on the line of play. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.

Does this rule carry the same caveats as the casual relief rule (only up to 5m, closest or nearest point determined by group etc), or, because of the stroke penalty, can you go back as far as you want/need with the stroke penalty (similar to a re tee)?

I'm picturing a lie I had at west thompson, hole 16 left in the thick trees. Impossible to get out cleanly, but I could have went straight back 5 meters, marked, taken the stroke, dumped a hyzer and putted for 4. Instead I tried a dangerous shot and went OB in the water.

It does not carry the same caveats as casual relief. If you elect for optional relief from a lie for which the casual relief rule does not apply, or to obtain relief greater than allowed by the casual relief rule, you can move your lie to any point on the line of play that you wish, with a one-throw penalty.